10-13-2002, 10:49 AM | #81 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Re: Iraq v's Scunthorpe United!!
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It's your own countries decision as to whether they go to war with Iraq and stand by America. You have a choice - just like we have a choice in the matter. You have to take up your problems with your government if you think they are a bunch of lap dogs to the US. Sween obviously did - if he wrote a letter to Blair. As has been stated repeatedly - our president reports to the American people, Congress reports to it's constiuents. The US is currently a member of the UN but we do not report to the UN. We went to them as the international community was screaming for - now we have to see what comes of it. Personally I don't think much will. When it all comes down to it - we may or may not support military action against Hussein. Just because your country doesn't support it or understand America's stance - does not necessarily mean that we are wrong. Looking at the foreign news sources - you hardly report all the discussion that is going on in the US concerning the possiblity with war on Iraq. I have noticed that the only thing that your news agencies report are the things that already support the general concensus. Until recently you basically left out Congress's role in the decision. People complain that America has very one sided reporting - but I have noticed it more with the reports coming out of international news agencies. The feeling out here is different than what it is in England. My cousin the other day told me he has been considering dropping out of college to JOIN the army.
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10-13-2002, 11:25 AM | #82 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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The war discussion here in the US is very similar to the culture in Germany before WWI. THey so whipped themselves up about the threat to the nation that they ended up attacking France despite having invaded them last in 1870. The events in Serbia were but a spark to the powderkeg that already existed. Other parallels are interesting. Germany was a relatively new nation, having cast off the last invader in the form of Napoleon. There was a war to unify the country. Despite being the largest country in population (of industrial nations) , industrial output, and military strenth, they still felt the world was against them. Sound familiar.
The question of Iraqi oil is more than imports and exports. With the second largest reserves of oil, control of Iraqi oil would mean control of world supply and pricing. The US could break the back of OPEC. Hmmmm.... maybe that wouldn't be so bad.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
10-13-2002, 12:01 PM | #83 | |||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-13-2002 at 12:05 PM. |
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10-13-2002, 12:17 PM | #84 |
im quite stupid
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Iraq would not stand a chance against scunny united we've got steve 'im not very violent' torpy.
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Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot |
10-13-2002, 12:19 PM | #85 | ||
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10-13-2002, 12:37 PM | #86 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Oh and now it's our responsibility to be a positive force in the world? Why should we constantly help others? Europe relies on us for support and military action when they need it - just look at how we had to get involved in Bosnia after they requested our help because they couldn't handle it. Europe relies us as all their tax dollars go to help their own people. Europe can do a lot more to help the world than it does instead of constantly whining about the US. But they won't because it'll take their tax dollars away from their socialized health care and their welfare systems.
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10-13-2002, 05:46 PM | #87 | |
im quite stupid
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No offence but the american people are more than happy to play the part as world leaders as is your government so dont begrudge us for asking you to play your role. But are you that strong my mate told me a funny story about american troops that he was training with they were out on menovers and sudenlly it started to rain so all the brits got there wet weather gear out but the americans all went bk to camp the english asked why and got the responce 'we dont train in the rain' lmao . The british forces are still regarded as the best trained if not that numeriable in size god bless the queen.
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Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot Last edited by Sween : 10-13-2002 at 05:47 PM. |
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10-13-2002, 05:50 PM | #88 | |
the Shrike
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Re: Re: Iraq v's Scunthorpe United!!
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10-13-2002, 06:03 PM | #89 | |
Elven Warrior
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As I said in my initial post THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT AN ATTACK JD I totally agree, letting the colonies obtain independence is probably the worst move Europe made......all I ask is that America prove us wrong ............ you also seem to think of Europe as a single country when in fact it consists of independant countries working as a coalition |
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10-13-2002, 06:12 PM | #90 |
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My view on it is that if we did go to war, it would be an act of prevention. Do we attack now or wait 5 years until he has nukes? And when (notice I said when, not if) he gets nukes, what's to keep him from selling them to some extremist terrorist organization to use in an attack that would be 100x worse than September 11? However, I think that we should try the UN first and see if they let inspectors in with unrestricted access.
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10-13-2002, 06:20 PM | #91 |
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Saddam is not so much willing to actively use nukes as he is to use the threat of them to control trade of his oil reserves, this would make him so powerful, he could actually be capable of his threats........he would use the nukes as a deterrent against an attack on his country.......
Of course that is just one POV.........if we had proof that he DOES have weapons of mass destruction then of course he should be stopped............he is of course mad as a kipper |
10-13-2002, 06:21 PM | #92 | |
the Shrike
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I say again: this is unjustified. Since when has prevention been a good excuse for a war? Especially since we don't actually know if Saddam has the capabilities to actually get hold of nukes. What about Iran? They have frickin' silos. Why is no one worrying about them? What next? India? Pakistan? They have nukes. Why don't we go and "prevent" them?
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10-13-2002, 07:55 PM | #93 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Well a lot of people argue that a preemptive strike against Hilter would have been justified. How many nukes or technology should we permit Hussein before it becomes "acceptable" to attack him? Quote:
Osszie - it seems again you don't understand how our government works. Each state has two representatives in the Senate, the House is based on population of each state. Each Representative in the House represents a particular district within THEIR state. You can't really look at the national polls and compare percentages of voters who support or don't support a partular item with the percentage of Congressmen that did or didn't. The only representatives I or any New Jerseyan can worry about are the ones that represent the state of New Jersey. Since it is midterm elections right now - it would be suicide for a lot of congressman not to be supporting what THEIR constituents want. Congress does not support the country as a whole - but are the states representatives to the federal government. These are the elected officials I have to worry about (not including local) - New Jersey Elected Officials . Hobbit and BMilder have a different representatvie in the House than I do because they're in a different district. Also - I do not think that Europe is one country. If you want though from now on I'll paste all the countries in my posts that make up Europe. Of course I'll have to then seperate out which ones are supporting us, which ones are on the sidelines and which ones are against the war all together, otherwise I'll hear about that. I'll do it and you list the feelings and political leanings of all 50 states in your posts when you talk about the US. Because believe me - where California and Oregon stand on the issue is a lot different than where the midwest stands or the northeast. Quote:
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10-13-2002, 08:23 PM | #94 | |||
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10-13-2002, 08:34 PM | #95 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-13-2002 at 08:38 PM. |
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10-13-2002, 09:03 PM | #96 |
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I'm glad I don't live there!!
Ty for that brief lesson in American politics JD.
Let me see if I've got this straight. The Public=Representatives=Congress=President........a nd the president answers to?.........no one, he has just been given autonomous power Sure you can post the opinions of the INDEPENDANT acting countries of Europe but why do I need to post each of the fifty states opinions? They don't mean a thing now that the president has autonomous power in this matter (say, didn't a man called Hitler once demand his government hand over autonomous power of the armed forces?) ............. I have been under the mishaprehension that the States worked together to act as a country, obviously I was wrong. Still it cannot be all bad at least they counted INDIVIDUAL votes at the last election. JD you seem to be under the impression that America is the most powerful country in the world because it has a right to be but the reality is America has power because the rest of the world allows it to. Look at your countries declining trade defecit and ask youself if the rest of the world imposed trade sanctions on America where would you be in ten years time? |
10-13-2002, 09:12 PM | #97 | |
the Shrike
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10-13-2002, 09:34 PM | #98 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Re: I'm glad I don't live there!!
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The representatives of the states represent the interests of their respective states in the federal government. We do work as a country, but we also have strong state rights. The federal government was ORIGINALLY set up with very very limited powers and the majority of power rested with the states. That has been changing and I think it is not a good thing. I am for state rights. What is good for California is not necessarily good for New Jersey. Also it was recently reported that New Jersey pays to the federal government $2,000 for every $1 we get back - yet a midwestern/mountain state (which I can't remember right now) pays $1 for every $1500 it gets. Quote:
[quote][b] JD you seem to be under the impression that America is the most powerful country in the world because it has a right to be but the reality is America has power because the rest of the world allows it to. [b][quote] We're the most powerful country in the world because the European countries, including England, lost their power after WWII. Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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10-13-2002, 09:36 PM | #99 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 10-13-2002 at 09:38 PM. |
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10-13-2002, 09:40 PM | #100 | ||
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Boo! |
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