11-24-2004, 02:32 AM | #81 | |
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I think everyone SHOULD carefully consider different worldviews. However, after enough time, a CHOICE to not make a decision is just that - a CHOICE - and it is NOT any more openminded than choosing atheism, Christianity, Buddhism, or any other worldview, IMO. Do you see what I mean? What do you think?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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11-24-2004, 02:39 AM | #82 | ||||||
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Very insightful post, Sminty! And I apologize again for being an insensitive clod and just jumping on the "safe sex" comment instead of welcoming you back I'm sorry - I'm just so angry about the "safe sex" phrase, because I think it's misleading, in a VERY dangerous way, to the people that hear it When I logged on the Moot, I saw your name and was very surprised and pleased! Then I read the post, got my button pushed, and acted like a jerk. I'm sorry, and I'm very glad to see you back!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 11-24-2004 at 02:41 AM. |
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11-24-2004, 01:49 PM | #83 |
Elf Lord
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Using the term "safe sex" is no more misleading than being a told to be a "safe driver." You may wear your seatbelt, use all your turn signals and follow the laws, but you may still crash and end up getting injured. You're just taking precautions to prevent it from happening.
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11-24-2004, 02:31 PM | #84 |
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Our first grade son is in a public school. There's a 7th grade girl in our church who had to place a condom on a cucumber for sex ed at her school. I find that troublesome.
I don't know at what grade they start teaching sex ed, or if they do the 'cucumber thing' at our son's school. However, I intend to find out soon. I don't want my son's female classmates to think of him as a cucumber.
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11-24-2004, 02:55 PM | #85 | |
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11-24-2004, 02:56 PM | #86 | ||
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*de-lurks*
I agree with you about safe sex Starr. I would be cheesed if someone actually thought condoms were 100% sprm/STD-proof, and therefore they could have sex wherever whenever, but that's more being annoyed about that person's ignorance (and being worried about them hurting themselves) than with the term 'safe sex'. Erm... Valandil... what is it about the cucumber thing that bothers you? I mean, 12-year-olds, I'm sure, can understand that the cucumber represents a penis, it is not the thing you actually put the condom on. One reason the sex ed teachers might have chosen the cucumber is to dispel that silly 'I'm too big to wear a condom' myth.
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11-24-2004, 03:20 PM | #87 | |
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On a serious note - I think acting that out will change a young lady's way of thinking. For one - it is more than subtle encouragement to do the kinds of things for which you would NEED that practice. It also turns their thoughts un-necessarily in that direction... and the thoughts become much stronger when reinforced by that action, IMO. In other words, to have it simply described will foster certain thoughts... and to some extent, I could agree that this is part of responsible sex education. However - to have the girls physically place it over a cucumber takes it a step further. It makes it easier for them to visualize... or involves them more deeply in the notion... or something. I'm not sure I'm expressing my concerns very well... maybe it's more a 'gut level' thing than a conscious one, and I'm trying to frame it in a conscious way.
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11-24-2004, 03:25 PM | #88 | |
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11-24-2004, 03:31 PM | #89 | |
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*wipes away a tear* A liberal and a conservative see 'eye-to-eye' on something! Maybe we can pull this country back together after all!
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11-24-2004, 03:59 PM | #90 |
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*YAY!s with Val.*
*And points out that he had actually said that a while back, but everyone disagreed.* Of course, the real issue of the cucumber is that it is a bizarre inversion of seeing women as objects...
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11-24-2004, 04:04 PM | #91 | |
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It's a gut reaction with me as well, not something I can explain very well. A child shouldn't have to imagine themselves in that situation at that age, or be encouraged to do so.
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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11-24-2004, 04:56 PM | #92 | ||
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LOL Val and Brownie, see, there's hope for the USA yet!
Okay, I understand your misgivings about the cucumber (both humorous and otherwise ). Maybe 12 is a little young to learn how to put on a condom. But I think kids will not pay attention to something that isn't important in their lives. I mean, I sure didn't take sex ed seriously when I was 12. It was kind of a waste of time IMO.
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11-24-2004, 05:16 PM | #93 |
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my point is that there really isn't that much to "learn" about putting on a condom that it needs to be practiced... it should be taught, but not in a way that is bound to make people feel uncomfortable... a big part about sex ed is making kids comfortable with talking about sex with adults... silly metaphors don't help... it makes the kids think that they can't talk about the real thing and must use "fruit" or something instead
another issue is that the boy should be the one who learns to put on a condom... do they make boys practice certain female methods of contraception application (i.e. diaphram)? i'll spare you any food analogies on that one
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11-24-2004, 05:22 PM | #94 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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12-02-2004, 02:40 PM | #95 | |
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12-02-2004, 02:41 PM | #96 |
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I felt this (above) was important enough to post here. 11 out of 13 federally funded abstinence only programs use “unproved claims, subjective conclusions or outright falsehoods” to the children in their care. And this is paid for by our tax dollars at the behest of the Bush administration. Talk about agenda at all costs… I hope the abstinence only people find this as alarming as I do. Isn’t it shooting yourself in the foot? I think the concept of abstinence CAN be a useful tool in the COMPLETE sex education arsenal. But why the tricks and manipulations and hard core political agenda promotion at all costs? Why the attempt to completely white wash any of the other important aspects in educating our kids as to what they need to be aware of because of some people’s particular moral and/or religious fundamentals in a public school setting at tax payers expense. It reminds me of the stealth attempt to teach creationism in public schools by calling it "Intelligent Design". Really quite disturbing.
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12-02-2004, 10:12 PM | #97 |
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While I have no problem with presenting creationism as a possibility (honestly, why do people get so riled up about intelligent design...if done correctly it does not prescribe to one single faith), the rest of the article is disturbing. It IS shooting oneself in the foot. Example:
Teacher: You can get STDs from toilet seats and kissing makes you pregnant! Student: Meep! ::student proceeds to kiss guy later, doesn't get pregnant:: Wow, that wasn't true, so EVERYTHING ELSE they told me is a lie, too. I can't get pregnant if I have sex standing up. ::bada bing, bada boom, brand new baby boy::
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12-02-2004, 10:22 PM | #98 | ||
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Oh my goodness, that's horrible IRex! Teens are lied to enough as it is.
There's nothing wrong with abstinence, but it's not the be-all-end-all of safe sex practices. (And I think you can say safe sex like you can say safe driving - driving safely doesn't mean you'll never have an accident.) And lying gets you nowhere, all the people did in this case was undermine the idea of abstinence.
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12-02-2004, 11:00 PM | #99 | |
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And Nurv, people actually use that myth? If a guy said that to me, I'd look at him and go "if you're that big you'll kill me."
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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell Last edited by Starr Polish : 12-02-2004 at 11:03 PM. |
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12-03-2004, 12:10 AM | #100 | |
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