04-11-2005, 12:04 PM | #81 | ||
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*hands Nurv anti-embarassing-blush cream* I really mean that! Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-11-2005, 06:25 PM | #82 | ||
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I see what you mean now. Of course it's fun/useful/interesting to discuss the culture outside of the Moot. We kind of have to. Tolkien, alas, doesn't live here. (It was just when it comes to what people say, but never mind now since that wasn't the part of what you posted. I don't think. How am I still confused? )
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04-11-2005, 10:01 PM | #83 | |
Quasi Evil
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Now dont get me wrong, some practicioners of some religions have a good grasp on things even through the vale of their religion. they are in touch with the overt symbolism involved and how it impacts their real world. and are less caught up with simply making religion into a never ending argument about always being literally correct. which really profoundly misses the point of religion.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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04-12-2005, 09:51 AM | #84 |
Elf Lord
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IR,
It is entirely possible that religion as practiced by intelligent and informed and thoughtful persons is not a veil to understanding but a mode of understanding that enables one to pierce the veil of this world and see beyond it. It is the contention of Christianity that such an explanation is to be had in the Incarnation, Crucifixion, Resurrection and Ascension of the God-Man Jesus of Nazareth. And it is to be realized in the life of the believer. That there are persons who have limited comprehension of the outworkings of this reality in intellectual, moral, and sociological, cultural, and interpersonal relations, as well as spiritualality is NOT a limitiation imposed on the individual under consideration by the belief, but a limitation of the belief system by the individual. See the difference? And for that matter, a thorough-going repudiation of religion on the grounds of materialistic philosophical grounds may be well elucidated by thoughtful atheists or promulgated by individuals of less learning, moral, sociological, cultural, or interpersonal ability. Denying the existence of the other-than-sensibly-detectable (by individuals or instrumentation aiding them), they deny the supra-natural with vehemence or violence (cf the militant atheism of Stalin et alia) or more moderately (cf the public arena in EU or USA) or more learnedly (cf GB Shaw and successors). One's world-view in either case is to be judged on its rational basis so far as is possible and then some sort of "leap into the consequences" as regards its outworking in the individual life. It should come as no surprise that the expression of that outworking is susceptible to all the faults of the persons in whom the event takes place. The consequences of these choices and their outworkings are then reasonable data points to consider for other individuals in making their own assessments. "By their fruits you shall know them" is an observation applicable to all - not just "religious people" but everyone.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
04-12-2005, 01:21 PM | #85 | |
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Last edited by Insidious Rex : 04-12-2005 at 01:22 PM. |
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04-12-2005, 01:40 PM | #86 |
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(subscription post)
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04-12-2005, 06:29 PM | #87 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-12-2005, 06:30 PM | #88 |
The Intermittent One
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suppression, oppression and control usually
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04-12-2005, 06:30 PM | #89 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-12-2005, 07:45 PM | #90 | |
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I disagree, LCoU! I would say rather to conform the individual to the intent of the Creator, but I agree that human institutions suffer the consequence of humans in them!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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04-13-2005, 12:08 AM | #91 | |
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Last edited by Insidious Rex : 04-13-2005 at 12:10 AM. |
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04-13-2005, 12:33 AM | #92 | ||
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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04-13-2005, 08:12 AM | #93 | |
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i thought you might *lurk* |
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04-13-2005, 10:21 AM | #94 | |
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You are on to something there! I would rather say to engage the incomprehensible because human intellect and being cannot grasp the totality of the Person of the Godhead! Check out THE IDEA OF THE HOLY by Rudolph Otto. Of course, if the Godhead has revealed Himself in the Person of Jesus, then we have the maximum expression of the Personality Of God in human terms by His own act. An honest consideration of Jesus and His claims is worthwhile, though I freely concede that not all come to my belief. And I freely admit that there is much in his followers that does not rise to a full appreciation of Him or His teaching, much less His meaning. But, shouldn't one give consideration to the Person and His claims and the best exemplars ot that (say, Mother Theresa, St. Francis of Assisi, and all those martyred for their faith) rather than concentrating on the imperfections of the worst examples? One does do that with other areas of human knowledge and experience.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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04-18-2005, 05:47 PM | #95 |
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*trying to catch up after a very busy few weeks*
Several notes - On death and how some people think one reason "religion" was made was to have a comforting thought that you'll see your loved ones again one day - as far as I can tell, the ancient Jewish religion (the root of Christianity) did NOT believe in an after-life of that sort. I think their basic beliefs could be summed up in what is placed in their mezuzah - the shema, which contains Deuteronomy 6:4-9 and 11:13-21; basically the call "Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one! And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your would and with all your might. And these words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart; and you shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house ...." and a few more verses about teaching, followed by the 10 Commandments. It seems as if the ancient Jewish religion was basically that God was One, and He created the universe, and that He cared about moral behavior. There was not any particularly "comforting" aspect about it, or things like "you'll see your beloved departed on the farther shores," or things like that. It's just kind of in your face. I'd be interested in hearing from Rad on this! (note to self - address IRex's and Earni's posts)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
04-18-2005, 11:38 PM | #96 | ||||||||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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EDIT - this could be a rather touchy post; please picture me with an interested and sincere and thoughtful look on my face I really want to understand your thoughts.
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I find this attitude, btw, in many "non-religious" people; that they are somehow automatically superior (at least in some ways) to "religious" people. I'm very surprised that YOU seem (because of the use of the word "down") to hold this belief, IRex! Is this true? I don't see how your opinion that there is a lack of knowledge available automatically makes you above (since others are "down" below you) others. Perhaps they see more than you do, and their conclusion is perfectly valid based on what they see. Or maybe I just misunderstand how you're using "down". I think a person can disagree with someone and think they're wrong without looking down on them. You seem to think religious people are wrong AND you seem to look down on them. Is that right? Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 04-19-2005 at 03:06 AM. |
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04-19-2005, 12:02 AM | #97 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Altho I think you're wrong about your generalization about religious people! As I said, I think it's because the silly ones are the noisy ones.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-19-2005, 12:30 AM | #98 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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It's late and I feel that I'm not expressing myself well, so I'll address the other parts of your post tomorrow.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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04-19-2005, 04:30 PM | #99 | |
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04-19-2005, 06:45 PM | #100 |
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Jews do believe in a heaven. Not sure on the details, but there is definitely an after-life heaven type of thing not dissimilar to the one in Christianity.
There just is definitely no hell, which is cool . No purgatory and nothing from the new testament :P If you don't make it into heaven, you just ... hang around on the earth, maybe as a spirit/ghost or something. Not very religious. :P There is nothing conforting in the torah (old testament)? *Shrug* The ancient Jewish religion is the same as the Jewish religion today. It hasn't changed.
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