06-10-2004, 11:41 PM | #81 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
||
06-10-2004, 11:50 PM | #82 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 134
|
Quickly slips this teeny tiny post in before SGH comes back
Quote:
Runs back out the thread |
|
06-11-2004, 12:26 AM | #83 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
06-11-2004, 12:54 AM | #84 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
|
Ok, let's get back on topic.
Might population size pay a role in the cost of health or % of GNP spent on health care? I queried my friend in Ukraine about free health care. Her response was that there one only went to free doctors when you were healthly. Any thoughts on the pro's and con's of a two tier system? |
06-11-2004, 01:29 AM | #85 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
And my question on Reeve was not about the research he's been pushing, but on the idea of should everyone with his type of injury have millions of dollars spent on them, like he has had because of his personal fortune and the wealth of his friends?
One of my nieces had some serious medical problems, and her care reached 1 million dollars, which was the cap. Then her dad's company changed to a different insurance company (nothing to do with her, they just renegotiated), and she was able to get more care. (she finally died after a few years ) Where should we draw the line on spending?
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
06-11-2004, 01:37 AM | #86 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
There should be NO line drawn on spending - new procedures and so forth cost a lot more. If people who can afford them don't pay for them - then they will never lead to new inventions and so forth. The expensive procedures Christopher Reeve has gotten has given doctors who specialize in spinal cord injuries the money to carry on research that they would not otherwise be able to do.
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
06-11-2004, 02:33 AM | #87 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
So do you think, tho, that EVERY person who has the condition that Reeve has should ALSO get the same treatment and medical equipment that he got (such as specialized wheelchairs), even if they can't pay for it? And if they can't pay for it, who does? That's what I mean. You said "he gets the EXTRA care because he's wealthy" - it's his choice to do what he wants with his money, but is it wrong of society to NOT give poorer people the same treatment and equipment for free? I ask this seriously, because I don't see how it's practical, but I also think that health care needs some reforms.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá Ă«?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Ăž Ă° Ăź ® ç ĂĄ ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lĂłmĂ«! AurĂ« entuluva! |
06-11-2004, 02:38 AM | #88 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
06-11-2004, 04:22 AM | #89 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
Quote:
The reason would be that there is a finite amount of resources available to meet an infinite demand, which means that someone else would be losing out to pay for highly speculative treatment which has unproven efficacy and which, even if it does work, leads to a comparatively small improvement in quality of life. We need rational decisions about how these resources are allocated. This means balancing the needs of individuals with society's need to get the maximum benefit from the available resource. Reeve, of course, is perfectly entitled to spend his money on what he wants; his achievements have been remarkable and no doubt have helped to push forward our understanding of spinal injuries. Another aspect to this situation is the amount of media attention it gets and how it therefore affects people's expectations of what can be achieved. Again, it's that care vs cure thing. Quite naturally, when something goes wrong, we want to know why and we want to fix it. Often, that is just not possible and it's more important to help a person come to terms with their situation and adjust their life accordingly. |
|
04-10-2007, 10:24 PM | #90 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
Question raised:
SisAunt made me think of this question...
Is the determining factor of government spending on issues like stem cell research, healthcare, welfare, or war...determined by the MAJORITY of opinion of people pro or con, sought by politicians? Of course I phrased that question like a good politician, which I am, so have fun deciphering it. Quote:
Amen to that Good old JD on politics.
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide Last edited by hectorberlioz : 04-10-2007 at 10:26 PM. |
|
04-10-2007, 11:17 PM | #91 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
|
.
I can tell you one thing -- any discussion of 'the cost of health care' had better include insurance, as well as government funding.
And the first entitlement I'd eliminate would be fertility treatments. Reading a newspaper about some woman with undersize quintuplets who will need extreme medical care because she ate clomid for lunch makes me wild. NO one, and by this I mean, not the left, not the right, not the rich, not the poor wants to actually be responsible for the choices they make. Everyone has a reason their goodies are essential. People with spinal injuries are a drop in the bucket, comparatively. |
04-10-2007, 11:22 PM | #92 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
You're right Sis, you do pay more taxes than me...this stuff is over my head as far as experience goes, and probably the majority of technicalities.
What do you think about Rudy's assertion that an abortion is a "right" so far as to obligate the Gov't to pay for the abortion?
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
04-15-2007, 12:23 PM | #93 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
To answer your original question, I don't think that health care research and spending should be decided by popular vote; it should be decided by people with the expertise. What politicians, accountable to voters, should do is create a framework within which these sorts of judgments can be made rationally and transparently.
Fertility treatment is an interesting example, as you could keep on having IVF as often as you like, and there are plenty of dodgy clinics offering false hope to people who are desperate. e.g. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ma/6272083.stm If abortion is legal and available for medical reasons, and the government provides funding for medical interventions, then you'd be politicising health care by preventing it from being spent on abortions. The knives are out for Guiliani already I see... |
04-15-2007, 01:14 PM | #94 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
|
.
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
04-16-2007, 09:25 AM | #95 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
Heh.
In the latter case, my instinct is that a health care practitioner is at liberty not to practise things which are against their conscience. |
04-16-2007, 09:44 AM | #96 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,535
|
Also against...
Quote:
The risk of being blown up at work or shot in your kitchen might reasonably cause you to choose another specialty. |
|
04-16-2007, 02:02 PM | #97 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
I can see how that might be...
Is there still a lot of that going on? |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
America and Its Culture | hectorberlioz | General Messages | 90 | 02-23-2007 02:27 PM |
What has America become? | arynetrek | General Messages | 152 | 05-19-2006 10:04 PM |
Why people love the United States of America | jerseydevil | General Messages | 74 | 03-31-2004 05:16 PM |
Pledge of Allegiance | IronParrot | General Messages | 47 | 03-08-2003 03:32 PM |
The Entmoot Presidential Debate | Darth Tater | Entmoot Archive | 163 | 12-06-2002 09:44 PM |