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08-31-2004, 11:05 PM | #81 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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Yeah, but only mods can change the thread title... which is why I was asking if FM was still gonna change it or not.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
09-01-2004, 12:20 AM | #82 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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One would think that in general, it would be easier to pass on your genes WITHOUT having to work around that vow of chastity (even tho some obviously did!) I'm sure quite a few monks did the things your articles quoted. After all, as G.K. Chesterton says (rough quote) "Original sin is the only Christian doctrine that can be definitely proven!" But I'm also sure that many monks DID keep their vows and enter the monastaries sincerely. And I don't see how THAT would help them pass on their genes!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 09-02-2004 at 03:00 PM. |
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09-01-2004, 12:22 AM | #83 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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(ps - thanks for the reference links, Merc!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-01-2004, 12:34 AM | #84 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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R*an, this might be important in answering some of what you said:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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09-01-2004, 12:36 AM | #85 | ||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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However, those opinions don't make any sense for ME to hold, because I see more than he sees, apparently. His explanations don't fit what I see, so I can't assent to them without compromising my intellectual integrity. I don't see love's purpose as only (or even primarily) to pass on one's genes. I see much more than that, so I won't be satisfied with explanations that don't take what I see into account. Perhaps IRex may say that we're not aware that the urge to pass on our genes is behind what we call love. If he says that, then I say why are we ignorant of that while he is somehow aware of it? For me, Christianity fits what I see. IRex's explanations leave out a lot of what I see. He's welcome to hold his opinions if they fit all he sees Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 09-01-2004 at 12:39 AM. |
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09-01-2004, 12:46 AM | #86 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Sorry for talking over your shoulder Insidious! You're just not alive right now . Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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09-01-2004, 12:47 AM | #87 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Quote:
And I'm still awaiting a reference for the article where the genes were interviewed and they said this! (I imagine it was probably on NPR )
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-01-2004, 12:51 AM | #88 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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If there are two battling instincts, and they were ONLY instincts, then how would we be aware of the battle?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-01-2004, 12:53 AM | #89 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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09-01-2004, 12:56 AM | #90 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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What am I doing? I just love to argue with everybody! Unfortunately I need to get off now, though . I'll respond more in an hour or two.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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09-01-2004, 01:04 AM | #91 | |||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 09-02-2004 at 02:51 PM. |
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09-01-2004, 01:12 AM | #92 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Quote:
A valid theory would be "THIS gene, given this input, produces THIS behavior", because the theory is repeatable (i.e., yields the same results every time), measureable, predictive and able to be falsified. Now a theory that runs "this gene can produce ANY behavior" is none of those. Yet IRex seems to claim that whatever behavior we see, the genes produced it. He's welcome to that opinion, and he seems to feel it sincerely and have thought about it a lot, and I respect that, but I don't think he can put it forward as a fact.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-01-2004, 01:19 AM | #93 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 09-01-2004 at 01:24 AM. |
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09-01-2004, 02:58 AM | #94 | ||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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This is great. Okay.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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09-01-2004, 07:06 AM | #95 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: on the boats
Posts: 264
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Last edited by Hemel : 09-01-2004 at 07:09 AM. |
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09-01-2004, 12:29 PM | #96 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Quote:
But it's not a big deal.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-01-2004, 02:15 PM | #97 | ||||||||
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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We have common knowledge of a lot of things today that were essentially unknowable 2000 years ago. So why cant we be that much further ahead in our knowledge base in another 2000 years? Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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09-01-2004, 05:00 PM | #98 | |||||||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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What we observe
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I'd have to hear the experiences or learn more about what's said before I could decide whether I believe it or not. Also I tend to look at it from a Christian standpoint. If what I hear sounds convincing, I will look into whether it may have been a demon or whether it might have been God. In real life I sometimes ask God to tell me whether there's a demon behind a situation or not. So my normal system I'd say would be first: Hear the account. Second (if it sounds convincing): Ask God about it. Quote:
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I'm not either asking you just to trust my own experience. I'm asking you to take it into account and weigh it in your mind, along with other Christian experiences, as you decide your own stance on this matter. Quote:
Really, the computer is amazingly complex. So is God. You gradually learn more about the computer. You gradually learn more about God. You don't know how all of the computer works before you use it. You utilize most of its services without understanding the programs those services come from. With God, you do the same. We gain things from God, learn about his nature, experience things of the spiritual realm without knowing the processes of how all of those things work. We come to understand a lot more about how they work though, then does the scientist who is determined to approach such things by purely scientific, physical matter reaching methods. Though I won't argue that you know a lot about computers in comparison with most users. Couldn't argue that, and it'd be pointless. Quote:
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Look around you. Wherever you're sitting right now, I'm certain you're nearby many machines, from a lightbulb down to a wristwatch (if you're wearing one). We gain massive benefits from plumbing, from lighting, from cars, from computers, printers, clocks, phones . . . vast numbers of things to our every day lives when we have no idea how they work. Or if so, only the vaguest of ideas. So you don't have to know everything about something in order to believe in it or in order to accept its reality and incorporate it into your everyday life. Prayer is a part of my everyday life. The microwave is a part of yours. Do you understand everything about the microwave? Definitely not. Do I understand everything about prayer? Definitely not. When you put something into the microwave and press the buttons, usually it heats up properly. When I pray over something, usually that thing changes according to my prayer. You accept microwaves, I accept prayer. When you don't know as much about heating things up, what time to put it in for and such, the food often turns out cold or too hot. When I didn't know as much about God, a smaller number of my prayers were answered. Does that mean that either one of us ditches the mechanism? Definitely not. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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09-01-2004, 05:04 PM | #99 | |||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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An offer
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One thing I will tell you right from the outset: If you actually want to go into this search, a major shortcut to finding the right answer is to pray that God will reveal himself to you. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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09-01-2004, 08:02 PM | #100 | |||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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