Blame Fëanor - Page 5

trolls' bane · 01-30-2005, 02:53 AM

Were you talking to me, Elemmire, or to someone else. I think you were, but I don't even know what I'm talking about.

Elemmírë · 01-30-2005, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

Oh, come on. What would Treebeard Say?

Much too much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

Were you talking to me, Elemmire, or to someone else. I think you were, but I don't even know what I'm talking about.

Well that's good, since neither do I, haven't you noticed?

But, yes, I was talking to you.

Manveru · 01-30-2005, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

Try and follow me here.

If the pillars had never been destroyed, Yavanna never would have created the Two Trees.
If the Two Trees had never been created, Feanor would have never been able to create the Silmarils.
The Silmarils were the culmination of Feanor's existance. Everything that he was revolved around them.

So, the Pillars had to be destroyed so that Feanor could could create the Silmarils.

That's still not Feanor's fault. That's like saying its my fault this thread was started because I was going to post in it.

Elemmírë · 01-30-2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manveru

That's still not Feanor's fault. That's like saying its my fault this thread was started because I was going to post in it.

Well... try to look at it all from a rather fatalistic point of view.

If one of your posts somewhere along the line in this thread starts something serious or somehow changes the way we all think about Tolkien (or makes us go declare war on Mexico

), then perhaps one could claim that this thread had to be started so that such an event could come to pass.

In which case, if you believe that fate is stuck in stone, and that such a future event had to come to pass, it most certainly is your fault, rather than mine and Chrys's, that this thread was started.

And that's the sort of logic that we're using to blame Fëanor. Of course, it hinges upon the presence of fate and almost complete absence of free will, though I think such is a perfectly logical way to view Middle Earth.

Master'sBaneSwiftSnowmane · 01-30-2005, 02:43 PM

Well...Tolkien did write these books and since he did then you know that everything happened for a reason. And if everything happened for a reason(fate) then it is Feanor's fault.

I think all I did was back up what Elemmire was saying...just from a different point of veiw.

Manveru · 01-30-2005, 03:35 PM

But then its not Feanor himself that is at fault, it is his fate. You can't blame him for that

Elemmírë · 01-30-2005, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manveru

But then its not Feanor himself that is at fault, it is his fate. You can't blame him for that

Why not?

How about "It was his personality that was at fault"? I think that someone is as closely tied to their fate as to their personality. Perhaps you could claim that Fëanor couldn't control his arrogance, but this doesn't mean that he is any less to blame. His arrogance is a part of him, as is his fate, I think.

Kellquenti · 01-30-2005, 08:51 PM

AAAAAGH! Iv'e only just seen this thread

How could you!!"

(takes up Feanorian forged sword in defence of my beloved Feanorians!!!")

Elemmírë · 01-30-2005, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kellquenti

AAAAAGH! Iv'e only just seen this thread

How could you!!"

(takes up Feanorian forged sword in defence of my beloved Feanorians!!!")

You're late, Kell. I was expecting you a while ago.

The sword won't work, but you can try to beat us with logic.

And we're only bashing Fëanor. We've left the sons alone. They are, after all, Fëanor's fault anyway!

[edited] How ever did I manage to rack up so many posts here?

I've never talked about magic 8 balls...

Kellquenti · 01-30-2005, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elemmire

You're late, Kell. I was expecting you a while ago.

The sword won't work, but you can try to beat us with logic.

And we're only bashing Fëanor. We've left the sons alone. They are, after all, Fëanor's fault anyway!

I was playing (stupidly) in COE Rude words to logic.

Feanor, as well as his sons I shall defend!!

FOREVER!!

Embladyne · 01-30-2005, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elemmire

[edited] How ever did I manage to rack up so many posts here?

I've never talked about magic 8 balls...

Are you baiting me?

Well, then, my magic 8 ball says to you "Phhhhhhhffffft!" and "You stink!" and "Too bad I'm not a silmaril, or I could cause a lot more damage to you and your heirs...."

Minielin · 01-30-2005, 10:40 PM

Again with the 8 ball.

Elemmírë · 01-30-2005, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minielin

Again with the 8 ball.

Annoying, isn't it?

I wish a Fëanorian would come and try to refute us.

Kell! Where are you!

Last Child of Ungoliant · 01-30-2005, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elemmire

Annoying, isn't it?

I wish a Fëanorian would come and try to refute us.

Kell! Where are you!

they all know that we're right

Minielin · 01-30-2005, 11:02 PM

Hmm. I'm still going with Blame Morgoth. Maybe I should put it in my signature.

Embladyne · 01-31-2005, 01:11 AM

I know this is an easy one, but I blame Fëanor for Miriel's early departure to the halls of Mandos, and Finwë's great grief. And then he had to hate his dad's new wife. I mean, this guy caused a lot of pain for his father, and Finwë still loved him. Gah. That's the worst. Ungrateful kids.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 01-31-2005, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manveru

Why? Morgoth could've corrupted Sauron without Feanor. In fact if it wasn't for Feanor and his Silmarills Ungoliant wouldn't have left Morgoth, so really I think we should be thanking Feanor because without him those two could've done alot more damage.

But there would be no point in maing the One, if Celebrimbor and the elves of Eregion had not made the nine, the seven and the three. And the elves of Eregion were Noldorin, and the Noldorin elves were led into exile by Fëanor, hence it is all his fault.

Kellquenti · 01-31-2005, 01:04 PM

Sorry Ellemire, I was out sharpening my kinslaying equipment

and recharging a silmaril or three!
Right who do you want me to whack in the head with the first one?

And it is NOT Feanor's fault!( whatever it is

)I'll take the blame , I usually do

Pytt · 01-31-2005, 05:49 PM

Wow, that is not a small thing. All the blame? are you sure you could handle that? If you ask Ellie and the other guys, that mean you take the blame for everything that EVER happended in Arda, which was of the bad. Wow.

Count Comfect · 01-31-2005, 06:19 PM

Hey, question - is Feanor responsible for anything Good? Or just bad?

01-30-2005, 02:53 AM	#81
trolls' bane Entmoot Secretary of the Treasury Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Campsite-by-Giraffe Posts: 5,408	Were you talking to me, Elemmire, or to someone else. I think you were, but I don't even know what I'm talking about. __________________ KI6PFA Amateur Radio Operator

01-30-2005, 02:43 PM	#85
Master'sBaneSwiftSnowmane Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 103	Well...Tolkien did write these books and since he did then you know that everything happened for a reason. And if everything happened for a reason(fate) then it is Feanor's fault. I think all I did was back up what Elemmire was saying...just from a different point of veiw. __________________ "Not only did my encounters with voters confirm the fundamental decency of the American people, they also reminded me that at the core of the American experience are a set of ideals that continue to stir our collective conscience; a common set of values that bind us together despite our differences; a running thread of hope that makes our improbable experiment in democracy work..." Barack Obama, The Audacity of Hope

01-30-2005, 03:35 PM	#86
Manveru Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 256	But then its not Feanor himself that is at fault, it is his fate. You can't blame him for that __________________ Earendel arose where the shadow flows At Ocean's silent brim; Through the mouth of night as a ray of light Where the shores are sheer and dim He launched his bark like a silver spark From the last and lonely sand; Then on sunlit breath of day's fiery death He sailed from Westerland

01-30-2005, 08:51 PM	#88
Kellquenti Enting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Midhurst UK Posts: 88	AAAAAGH! Iv'e only just seen this thread How could you!!" (takes up Feanorian forged sword in defence of my beloved Feanorians!!!") Last edited by Kellquenti : 01-30-2005 at 08:53 PM.

01-30-2005, 10:40 PM	#92
Minielin Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: I dwell in possibility. Posts: 247	Again with the 8 ball. __________________ "...then how shall I Revive the dying tones of minstrelsy, Which linger yet about lone gothic arches, In dark green ivy, and among wild larches?" Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum.

01-30-2005, 11:02 PM	#95
Minielin Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: I dwell in possibility. Posts: 247	Hmm. I'm still going with Blame Morgoth. Maybe I should put it in my signature. __________________ "...then how shall I Revive the dying tones of minstrelsy, Which linger yet about lone gothic arches, In dark green ivy, and among wild larches?" Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum.

01-31-2005, 01:11 AM	#96
Embladyne Honourary Elitist Inklette Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: between the mountains and the sea Posts: 704	I know this is an easy one, but I blame Fëanor for Miriel's early departure to the halls of Mandos, and Finwë's great grief. And then he had to hate his dad's new wife. I mean, this guy caused a lot of pain for his father, and Finwë still loved him. Gah. That's the worst. Ungrateful kids. __________________ Even on the pinnacle of a palace a crow does not become an eagle. My DA page

01-31-2005, 01:04 PM	#98
Kellquenti Enting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Midhurst UK Posts: 88	Sorry Ellemire, I was out sharpening my kinslaying equipment and recharging a silmaril or three! Right who do you want me to whack in the head with the first one? And it is NOT Feanor's fault!( whatever it is )I'll take the blame , I usually do

01-31-2005, 05:49 PM	#99
Pytt The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: trondheim, norway Posts: 1,388	Wow, that is not a small thing. All the blame? are you sure you could handle that? If you ask Ellie and the other guys, that mean you take the blame for everything that EVER happended in Arda, which was of the bad. Wow. __________________ Don't Panic!

01-31-2005, 06:19 PM	#100
Count Comfect Word Santa Claus Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,922	Hey, question - is Feanor responsible for anything Good? Or just bad? __________________ Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall.

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