The Official Languages Thread

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Linaewen
I guess the relationship between Afrikaans and Dutch is similar to that of Malaysian and Indonesian (the latter which is based on the former). There are some differences of grammar and some of spelling, but they are easily mutually intelligible. Though the meaning my change a bit, since some words are more the standard in Indonesian, but are colloquial Malay etc. Do you find this happens as well to you?

Could be, I don't know Malaysian and Indonesian so I can't really judge. I'm sure there will be words that sound very different in Dutch from their Afrikaanse counterparts. If I'm not mistaken, Afrikaans will probably have less influence from French words than Dutch has had. The point is that, though I can understand Afrikaans reasonably enough, I'm not able to speak it and can't really judge the differences and simularities. So I'm more guessing and reasoning than really knowing.

[Nerdanel]

Originally posted by Linaewen
What are you confused with?

Vad är de svenska eller finska orden för 'Go away!'?

Oh, and for anyone interested in learning Dutch/Nederlands, remember that Rembrandt is not a verb, but an artist.

<--Look post count! Special year that was!

I'm confused with everything.. But I'll try to read some more, and then ask!

Mene pois! means go away, but I think there is something better.. But I can't come up with it now.

[Grey_Wolf]

A couple of tourists entered a roadside restaurant and sat down by a window, waiting to be served.

Suddenly the hear, over the speakers:

"Två rödspätta" (2 helpings of plaice)

Having studied a bit of Swedish they react to this:

"Shouldn't they say 1 rödspätta, 2 rödspättor" says one of them, shrugging.
"Perhaps they don't know Swedish all that well." says the other.

Then the voice comes over the speakers again:

"Två ärtsoppa" (2 helpings of pea soup)

Again the two of them react this grammatical mistake.

"Shouldn't they say 1 ärtsoppa, 2 ärtsoppor" says one of them, shrugging again.
"Perhaps they really have a problem with Swedish grammar." says the other.

Yet again the voice comes over the speakers:

"1 köttbullar" (1 helping of meat balls)

This is really too much for the tourists and they leave the restaurant saying to each other:

"Don't they teach people proper Swedish anymore."

[Jonathan]

Lol, never thought about how the singular and plural forms are screwed up at Swedish restaurants

[Linaewen]

So why ARE they so screwed up?

Idag köpte jag en ny svenska-engelska ordbok! Den är mycket bra!

I also resisted getting a book about Nederlands (again), instead buying a cheaper reference to French grammar. From what I've read so far, it's not nearly as difficult as I imagined. Yay, grammar comparison beginning soon.

[Lalaith]

Lin, I got a very lovely song for you. I am sure you'll like it (download it ... hehehe).

Christina Stürmer
Ich lebe

Du bist die Qual, ich war schon immer Masochist.
Die Bombe tickt, hast mich entführt du Terrorist.
Schmeckst bittersüß, saugst mich aus wie ein Vampir.
Ich bin verhext, komm einfach nicht mehr los von dir.

Refrain:
Ich lebe, weil du mein Atem bist.
Bin müde, wenn du das Kissen bist.
Bin durstig, wenn du mein Wasser bist.
Du bist für mich mein zweites ich, ich lebe.

Du bist das Gift, doch das Gegengift wirkt gegen mich.
Du bist das Geld, ich gib’ dich aus es lohnt sich nicht.
Du bist der Rausch und ich will noch mehr Alkohol.
Du bist die Welt, wo Schatten Licht gefangen hält.

Refrain:

Ich steh an der Front, gedankenleerer Horizont.
Du bist verliebt, wie schön für dich.
Warum sagst du’s nie?

Refrain:

Ich lebe, weil du mein Atem bist.
Bin müde, wenn du das Kissen bist.
Bin durstig, wenn du mein Wasser bist.
Du bist für mich mein zweites ich.

Drum lebe, weil ich dein Atem bin.
Sei müde, wenn ich dein Kissen bin.
Sei durstig, wenn ich dein Wasser bin.
Ich bin für dich dein zweites ich, ich lebe.

Bin müde,
bin durstig,
du bist für mich mein zweites ich.

[Linaewen]

Danke, meine verwandte Seele!

I'll download it now. May need your help with the translation, though.

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Linaewen
I also resisted getting a book about Nederlands (again), instead buying a cheaper reference to French grammar. From what I've read so far, it's not nearly as difficult as I imagined. Yay, grammar comparison beginning soon.

Wait until you get to the COI-COD-part and l'accord du verbe. You'll be screamin in terror soon enough.

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Eärniel
Wait until you get to the COI-COD-part and l'accord du verbe. You'll be screamin in terror soon enough.

The what now?

It's only a short book; I'm not sure it has all that stuff. I was hoping to compare French grammar soon, because the other languages I want to look at (Japanese, Russian etc) all entail learning other alphabets.

[Earniel]

COI, COD and l'accord du verbe. A few French grammatical things that could send shivers down my spine. Still can, though.

[Linaewen]

Right. I fully understand now. Silly Belgian, doesn't know anything...

Oh, that reminds me. Today Justine Henin-Hardenne beat Kim Clijsters in the Australian Open final. Wallonia triumphed over Flanders- are you upset?

Actually, I heard about something about language-related conflict in België (in particular Voeren), that's sad. Have you seen much of this type of thing?

[Earniel]

This silly Belgian at least knows how to use code. Oh, I see you've changed it.

Wooh now, I wouldn't call it Wallonia triumphing over Flanders. I'd call it one Belgian wins over another.




Okay, okay! Who am I kidding? I wanted Kim to win but only because I like her personality better not because of the language she speaks.

Language issues can be rather tense here in Belgium, you're right. Mostly at the 'language-border' on which Voeren happens to be situated. But in the rest of Belgium it's not really noticable. We had to get language-laws to regulate the languages at the border between Wallonia and Flanders. In a way, that's pretty sad but some people can be such idiots... That's the downside of a land that was created from several bits of land. And then they needed to make Brussels also a separate piece, just because it happened to be the capital and nooo, they couldn't have it that it was situated in Flanders... *stops herself before going on a rant again about the cut-up.*

Anyway, it's funny that we never really had any trouble over language with the German-speaking part of Belgium. Probably because it's so much smaller (and more agreeable).

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Eärniel
This silly Belgian at least knows how to use code. Oh, I see you've changed it.

Shuddup. Are you just going to leave me hanging with this whole COI, COD etc thing? That's so rude, you know, you can't refer to something about grammar to the grammar-freak and not explain it.

We wanted Kim to win as well, mostly because she is an 'adopted Aussie' (because she's marrying Lleyton Hewitt), but she's also really nice! Aussies are the most 'professional crowds'.

What do people do out of their language..patriotism? And what kind of language-laws?

So is Brussels in some sort of territory of its own, like Canberra is in the ACT? (Australian Capital Territory).

Is there also tension in Luxembourg? They sure speak a lot of languages there!

[Earniel]

I left you hanging because I couldn't remember the English counterpart names for the French COI and COD right now. *grabs Oxford Advanced learner's dictionary* Oh I'm such an ass! Direct and indirect object (which happens to be a near identical translation of the French name).

L'accord du verbe refers to the French rules where the ending of verbs can change according to the COI and COD used in the sentence.

The kind of language laws that stipulates in which language the civilians have to get correspondence from the government and in which language they have to be helped by the community services. And how you can change those conditions.

Brussels has become a region on the scale of Flanders and Wallonia. It has fargoing responsibilities and power. It's called the Brussels Capital Region now. But it is entirely surrounded by Flemish territory of which it was part until a few years ago. Suffice to say, I think the cut-up was a giant mistake. The argument for the separation was that, since Brussels was still the capital of the whole of Belgium, it should be its own region and not part of Vlaanderen. In itself it sounds reasonable, but we shouldn't forget that the majority of the Brussels population are French-speaking.

This decentralisation of power brings many trouble on organisational levels. It means that in the heart of Vlaanderen there's a region that's nigh totally independant with its own government and organisations. This complicates cooperation on larger fields such as environment, traffic, road-maintenance and such rather badly.

Tension in Luxembourg? You mean the Duchy or the part of Belgium?

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Eärniel
I left you hanging because I couldn't remember the English counterpart names for the French COI and COD right now. *grabs Oxford Advanced learner's dictionary* Oh I'm such an ass! Direct and indirect object (which happens to be a near identical translation of the French name).

L'accord du verbe refers to the French rules where the ending of verbs can change according to the COI and COD used in the sentence.b

Oh, I see. So are you just referring to the verb inflections for direct & indirect subjects? I've already read about them, and I'm not daunted because I'm not tackling French yet. That's just remembering all the myriad endings. By difficult, I'm talking about difficult concepts, like cases (of German, Russian, Polish).

Polish has 18 verb groups, IIRC. Want to learn that?

Danke je wel! For all that fascinating information! *Moves België up on her Obsessed Countries List, only to realise it's already sharing no. 2 position*

Luxembourg- the Duchy. There's a region too? I notice you spell in Vlaanderen (which, duh, corresponds to the English equivalent). Is that a region made up of several Flandereses? ( ).

FROGS RULE! KWAAK!

[Earniel]

Polish? No thanks. I think Dutch, French, English, German and Spanish are mooooore than enough for me already.

The Great-duchy of Luxembourg is a tiny state (even more tinier than Belgium and that's sayin' something) between Belgium, France and the Netherlands. It's not part from Belgium, but we have a place in Belgium that's called Luxembourg too so I was unsure which of the two you meant.

Vlaanderen was a bit of a slip of mine into Dutch. Vlaanderen is the Dutch name for the region you call Flanders. There is only one Flanders and only one Vlaanderen and it's one and the same.

Kikkers kwaken!

[Linaewen]

Originally posted by Eärniel
The Great-duchy of Luxembourg is a tiny state (even more tinier than Belgium and that's sayin' something) between Belgium, France and the Netherlands. It's not part from Belgium, but we have a place in Belgium that's called Luxembourg too so I was unsure which of the two you meant.

Oh, I knew about the Duchy but I didn't know there was a place called Luxembourg in Belgium too.

Vlaanderen was a bit of a slip of mine into Dutch. Vlaanderen is the Dutch name for the region you call Flanders. There is only one Flanders and only one Vlaanderen and it's one and the same.

Yes, I know what Vlaanderen was, but I was wondering why it's in the plural. I thought maybe it was like De Nederlanden, in that there IS more than one Netherland. (If you get my meaning).

*Sorely regrets not getting that Dutch book now*

[Earniel]

Ah, I see the reason of the confusion. The 'en' in Vlaanderen doesn't signify a plural. We've got other places with names that end on '-en' without being in plural.

[Linaewen]

Well, then, why is it FlanderS in English? Ik begrijp het niet.

Hallo, Eärniel, hoe gaat het met je? Ik ben moe.

[Lalaith]

Originally posted by Linaewen
Danke, meine verwandte Seele!

I'll download it now. May need your help with the translation, though.

Bitte, bitte.

Lately I love to listen to german songs. If you like that song I can give you some more titles.

Ich lebe!