Should evolution be taught in schools?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Eärniel
You know, I just had the astonishing mental image about a hippo taking a ladder out his pocket, placing it against the tree, tearing off the door of the birdhouse, picking up a (long) paintbrush and with its tongue out its mouth carefully beginning to put graffiti on the wall. Then quickly stuffing the brush and the ladder into its pocket, jumping over his fence and trying to look innocent in his own compound. I think the exams are finally getting to me.

Maybe....

By the way, I noticed the addition to your sig.

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
I'm still waiting for yes/no responses to this: Is it reasonable, based on observing the complexity of the world around us, to think that there MIGHT be an intelligent designer/manufacturer behind things?

Note that it is outside the realm of science at this point. I'm not talking about science at this point, I'm talking about what a reasonable person might think. I'm not talking conclude, either, as in a final conclusion - I'm talking about thinking that it would be reasonable to think that there MIGHT be an intelligent being behind things, even though it would not be possible to prove its existence (unless it came to visit or something like that).

People - it's a simple question! I'm NOT trying to fool anyone! When have you seen me be dishonest/sneaky? I'm not going to reach thru your monitor and get you in a stranglehold until you say you believe in creationism! If you think that it IS a reasonable thing to think, you can still say (1) but there's no proof for it, or (if I ever get to sharing the links, which I"ll do if some people say it's reasonable) (2) I don't think the data supports it, and I think the data DOES support the theory of evolution. See? 2 responses, ready-made for your convenience!

Yes.

It's certainly reasonable to think that there MIGHT be a Creator.

[Rían]

Thanks for answering my question, GrayMouser.

BTW, whoever is interested in the links that I said I would provide, I just PMed cass, who was the one that first asked for links, to tell her it will be at least next week, because I'm in the middle of 2 graduations with parties and rehersals and etc., and I feel the "Offshoot" thread question has priority over this one, because I started that one first. And my info is in books, not links, so I don't have links handy - I"ll have to research them. Sorry I'm not faster, but the links will come (and please bug me if I forget!)

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
Thanks for answering my question, GrayMouser.

BTW, whoever is interested in the links that I said I would provide, I just PMed cass, who was the one that first asked for links, to tell her it will be at least next week, because I'm in the middle of 2 graduations with parties and rehersals and etc., and I feel the "Offshoot" thread question has priority over this one, because I started that one first. And my info is in books, not links, so I don't have links handy - I"ll have to research them. Sorry I'm not faster, but the links will come (and please bug me if I forget!)

While you are waiting you could try these ( he oh-so-casually suggests)

http://www.talkdesign.org/faqs/icdmyst/ICDmyst.html

http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/index.html

[Anglorfin]

Rian, my answer to your question would be yes, but with limitations. I never like to rule out any possibility, but to me history has shown that whatever we don't understand at the time we just categorize as religious phenomena. Religion is a great place to stash all the stuff we can't figure out because of lack of evidence or the means to collect that evidence. It is for this reason that I do not like dismissing things as "miracles" and such, because sooner or later they might be "solved". But just the same I will not deny there could be a mystical force controlling my destiny. It is unwise to close off either avenue.

[Rían]

Thanks for answering, Anglorfin

I agree that there's been lots of abuses in the name of religion (not just the Christian religion, BTW!) and I think that religion has improperly stepped into science, and vice versa.

And I just finished up my main posting on the "Offshoot" thread (I think and hope there will be some discussion, but my major explanations are finished), so after the 2 graduations on Tuesday, I should be able to spend a bit of time here to (finally!) give some links to Cass.

[HOBBIT]

admin note
Ok - lets get back on topic here - no more answering of Rian's question(pm her if you really care). It is irrelevant to the topic: "should evolution be taught in schools?"

Whether or not it is reasonabe as a first thought that there is a supreme creator has nothing to do with the topic at all. Certainly as a second thought it is not very reasonable at all :P

It does not matter anyway because the topic is not "should creation be taught in schools?" (as truth) to which the obvious and definite answer is no.

Maybe that question is better suited for the offshoot topic? It will no longer be answer here and if this topic does not return to the original question, it will be closed.

Now just some comments:

just finished up my main posting on the "Offshoot" thread

Oh is that so?

I just looked at it and it is all addressing I guess truth and free will and what god and you think of it all is what you are addressing there, and that does not concern me in the least.

What about my long posts? (by finishing your main postings on the offshoot topic this implies that, well you are finished with your main postings in the offshoot topic) I really don' t care that much, but it would be nice if you would respond to some of my points so I can argue some more - right now it seems like the offshoot topic is closed off to me because of the current topic going on :P At least I THINK you are addressing truth and free will - not even really sure what you are answering... looked it over, skimmed it a little and I noticed that I was totally disinterested by it and there was nothing for me to comment on really. oh well. I don't mean to offend you rian - I'm just being truthful. Also, about my posts, it really does not matter if you reply to them or not (it was like what, over a week ago???), I would just like it if someone did, but it really does not matter to me.

-carry on with the topic "should evolution be taught in schools?"-

[Rían]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
admin note
Ok - lets get back on topic here - no more answering of Rian's question(pm her if you really care). It is irrelevant to the topic: "should evolution be taught in schools?"

That question was a lead-in to providing links on creationism, which people on this thread asked about, and which is a related topic (IOW, if evolution SHOULDN"T be taught, then what should?)but I won't post here anymore on that subject if you don't want me to (because as an admin, you consider it to be too off-topic).

It does not matter anyway because the topic is not "should creation be taught in schools?" (as truth) to which the obvious and definite answer is no.

YOUR humble opinion!
****EDIT - I just noticed your "as truth" note - OK, I agree.

Maybe that question is better suited for the offshoot topic? It will no longer be answer here ..

OK, I guess that's my answer, so I'll stop posting here, because I've made my points about the THEORY of evolution already.

Now just some comments: Oh is that so? .... What about my long posts? (by finishing your main postings on the offshoot topic this implies that, well you are finished with your main postings in the offshoot topic) I really don' t care that much, but it would be nice if you would respond to some of my points so I can argue some more - right now it seems like the offshoot topic is closed off to me because of the current topic going on :P At least I THINK you are addressing truth and free will - not even really sure what you are answering... looked it over, skimmed it a little and I noticed that I was totally disinterested by it and there was nothing for me to comment on really. oh well. I don't mean to offend you rian - I'm just being truthful. Also, about my posts, it really does not matter if you reply to them or not (it was like what, over a week ago???), I would just like it if someone did, but it really does not matter to me.

You misunderstood me, Hobbit - I should have worded that better - I meant finished with my main posting on the subject of hell, which was what EG asked about. I've said several times that I fully intend to get to your question, but I wanted to finish up EG's first, because her question came first. And I've also said many times that I'm sorry that I can't work any faster. I will PM you when I get to your post, and you can either read it or not, whatever you wish.

[HOBBIT]

I understand that you got to it by that, but as it is now "is it reasonable at god created everything" does not relate to "should evolution be taught in school" So yes, that is a little too off topic for this topic

Yes, that is my opinion. And note: all my opinions are only my own and the views of the rest of the staff.

Ah I see, well thats good. You should work faster Thanks.

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by GrayMouser
While you are waiting you could try these ( he oh-so-casually suggests)

http://www.talkdesign.org/faqs/icdmyst/ICDmyst.html

http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/index.html

Thanks for the excellent links, GM. Ken Miller is very interesting. Maybe Creationism should be taught in Poli Sci were it really belongs.

[Giroth]

Cirdan.........eh forget it,there is no point at explaining it to you.......*sighIt's all good though.



"Maybe that question is better suited for the offshoot topic? It will no longer be answer here and if this topic does not return to the original question, it will be closed." ~HOBBIT


YAY!in my opinion,this topic is starting to cause division.........besides,I already got MY point in.....evolution should NOT be taught in school....so there you go

~giroth

[Sheeana]

If you don't feel like explaining it to Cirdan, then why don't you explain it to the rest of us then? Oh yeah - cos you can't.

[Giroth]

*sigh

yeah...........I won't because I ALREADY DID!!!!!!!!!!!!Sheesh............besides,no one will listen to me.......why would a bunch of athiests
listen to a bunch of Christians,
or vice versa?


Peace,


~Giroth

[Cirdan]

seek truth

[Giroth]

oh,but I do..............i consider your evolution thing false,and creationism truth......you do the opposite,so what can I say?

[Cirdan]

keep looking

[HOBBIT]

Giroth, you have presented in this topic some of the weakest arguments for creation that I have ever seen - and I explained thoroughly why your reasoning did NOT WORK.

Did you even read it? If not I would suggest acutally reading it. Why have such a closed mind?

Summary of my post (but I reeaaaaaly suggest that you ACUTALY READ my post concerning your "proof of creation"...its only a few pages back)You said that you believe that a god created the world because some cities mentioned in the bible exist - oh alright that means that you believe in the illiad, the oddysey, greek and roman mythology. Practically all the cities mentioned in those myths actually exist. Does that mean that the world was created by Titans and now Zeus, Hates, Posiedon et all reign over all of us? Do Cyclops exist? And you were also wrong about many of your "facts." No ark has been found, for example. BUT I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH giroth, actually read our posts and THINK about them before just writing them off, if that is not too hard

Also, people are not listening to you not because you are christian, but because you are not arguing your case well at all! Of course we listen to eachother here....

[Rían]

So Hobbit, does that mean that I can post links on details of creationism when I (finally) get them? (sorry, most of my info is in books, and I'll have to research some good links.) Is it just discussion on my question about the reasonableness of the premise behind creationism that you want stopped?

ps - could you look over at the Offshoot thread - I had a question for you there

[HOBBIT]

Is it just discussion on my question about the reasonableness of the premise behind creationism that you want stopped?

Yes,because that is very off topic. It really nothing to do with "should evolution be taught in schools?"

You are certainly allowed to argue why you might think creation holds more water than evolution - that doesn't go directly with the topic, but it is more closely related than your question. For the people that say "NO," they obviously can and should argue WHY they say no - but you said "yes." But feel free to post evidence for creation, I'm curious to see it.

[Giroth]

*sigh


HOBBIT,I've tried time and again to END this with you.....but your stubborness
does not permit you to ACTUALLY listen to me.I believe evoution is incorrect.......I am a Christian.
Your theory goes against my belief.....and when you really believe in something of this type of religion,you do NOT turn away from it.
You on the other hand are 100% ATHIEST,and you have all rights to feel as you do.
I respect YOUR opinion at least,as I have stated contuinually in the past.Oh and I have found MY truth...........keep looking Cirdan.......hehehehBut that is a matter of opinion,yes?


So,let's end this childish argument once and for all;the world came to be,if from evolution or creation,
and no matter waht way you look at it,its still the same;we are here,ok?I am not incorrect by your theory,and YOU are not incorrect by my belief......at least I can say that.
*shakes on it



Have a nice day,

~Giroth