02-18-2003, 09:59 PM | #941 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Jeepers, he's only one example, though a very obvious one. History is repeating itself, but thank God the Bush Administration can see it and is doing something about it! |
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02-19-2003, 12:08 AM | #942 | |
Viggoholic
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02-19-2003, 12:31 AM | #943 |
The Redneck Elf
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yes everybody loves australians, but why does everybody hate americans? are we that unlovable??
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02-19-2003, 01:00 AM | #944 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 02-19-2003 at 01:02 AM. |
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02-19-2003, 04:04 AM | #945 | |
The Dude
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: at the altar of my ego
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maybe its just that australia never really instigates wars and we only went to WWI for the mothercountry WWII Japan was going to take us over... and Vietnam was just a screw up anyway you look at it (but im not one of those wankers that would go out and spit at Viet vets because of the then Govt ) i think the weird thing is that there arent grudges held with these countries anymore, hey i speak japanese now as for the situation in iraq well a few of my friends keep going peace rallying and ive got nothing agaisnt that but when they keep shouting NO BLOOD FOR OIL!! in my ear i really start losing it... and then all i heard last night is about how George Bush is the 3rd anti-christ actually that was pretty creepy
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Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free, Last edited by Millane : 02-19-2003 at 04:10 AM. |
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02-19-2003, 05:21 AM | #946 | |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
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I would guess that people in the Arab world perceive the American position as being hugely hypocritical: no attempt to enforce the numerous UN resolutions against Israel, for example. Also, again from an Arab perspective, why should it be OK for the US to have (and use) weapons of mass destruction but not for anyone in the Arab world to have them? More generally, lots of people believe that, over the years, the US has used foreign policy to undermine democratic governments and prop up corrupt dictatorships. Also, it looks pretty bad for the world's richest, most powerful country to launch an attack on a third world country. Another issue is poverty. People starve to death all over the world, yet their economic policies are dictated by US-dominated financial institutions and markets, from the macro level right down to what seeds you can plant for next year's crop. The perception is that the US regards the rest of the world simply as a market for its products and that this drives all of its interventions. The Bush regime has added a new dimension to this: disagreement with their views, even by their allies, is simply not tolerated. They have not entered into a debate, just decided unilaterally what is to be done. Their motives are regarded as being 100% to do with business. The current US government is perceived as being the most extreme right-wing the US has ever had. Presumably most Americans wouldn't agree with these views, but if you can put yourself into that mind-set for a moment you might get a sense of why people are anti-American. Personally, I think anti-Americanism is just racism by another name, and have no time for it. cheers d. Last edited by Dunadan : 02-19-2003 at 05:26 AM. |
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02-19-2003, 06:57 AM | #947 | |||
Elf Lord
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Location: Lindon
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Please, read again what I was saying there: “Meaning that after Pearl Harbour you declared war and Germany answered by declaring it in turn. The point was simply to show war was unavoidable, but since you clarified your position it becomes irrelevant.” It has nothing to do with what you are saying. At the time JD seemed to be defending an isolationist stance, remember? He clarified the issue later, hence the last part of the phrase. Quote:
On the same post you are commenting I wrote: “Personally I believe that, under the current situation, containment, being viable, is the best solution by far.” And ”You will notice I’ve said, “under the current situation,” and not “in any circumstance.” That was a deliberate choice of words.” That should clarify that I do not believe containment is always viable, and I expect it should answer the first part of your post. As for why I think it is a bad example, there are several reasons, you will forgive me if I won’t make an exhaustive accounting of them, but a few are, quoting an earlier post: “You keep comparing him to Hitler, yah, right. What do they have in common? Let me answer that: Saddan is immoral creature, greedy and ambitious. The only thing he believes is in his own welfare. But, his campaigns were a joke. He never managed to defeat Iran when he had the support and blessings of the US, and only tinny Kuwait could not resist him. Even so he only advanced to attack Kuwait because apparently he believed that the US wouldn’t object. ”Hitler was not even remotely comparable with Saddan, nor was Nazi Germany to Iraq. If you want to compare someone with Hitler would not be Saddan, it would be Bin Laden. Like him, he is a fanatic with a cause, a dangerous one. Saddan only cause is himself. He is an opportunist, and can be contained, Hitler couldn’t be.” And I’ll also to bring to your attention what Dunedan said: Quote:
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**************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion |
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02-19-2003, 07:05 AM | #948 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Durham, England
Posts: 694
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Ah sod all this.
Can we have another war with France? We used to be quite good at those!
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I'm beset by self-doubt ....or am I? |
02-19-2003, 06:46 PM | #949 | ||||||||
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tampa
Posts: 327
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Time to refute Dunadan's points.
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The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. |
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02-19-2003, 11:06 PM | #950 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Hussein is still not complying with inspections and still refuses to let his scientists be interviewed. He still has not turned over a list of scientists who had a part in the distruction of the weapons he has. He was asked to do these things under 1441 and again 5 days ago - Hans Blix has asked Iraq to comply with this, as of yet Hussein has not. Today the government of Iraq's attitude was that they don't really have to - the world is against the US now. As long as there is no pressure on Hussein - he feels he can do what ever he wants. And why not? - this how the world has reacted to him and all the world's dictators. The world is afraid of taking action and would rather the situation blow up in their face before paying attention. It was the same for Osama, the same with Hitler (Churchill lost his position because he was for taking PREEMPTIVE action against Germany/Hitler), North Korea, etc. I find it rather disturbing that with ALL the suposed peace rallies - there was NO plackerts asking Hussein to step down, no one was screaming for Iraq to comply with inspections or give up their WMD. As you said - we haven't invaded yet. if you look at the history of this thread - you'll notice that people were acting like we were invading in October.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 02-19-2003 at 11:13 PM. |
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02-20-2003, 05:10 AM | #951 | |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
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02-20-2003, 06:40 PM | #952 | |
Elven Warrior
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Anyways, just try and beat those points. Mwhahaha!
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The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. Last edited by Finmandos12 : 02-20-2003 at 07:02 PM. |
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02-20-2003, 08:33 PM | #953 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Queen's
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On a more humorous note here's something topical and amusing
click and enjoy http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
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"Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom" |
02-20-2003, 09:48 PM | #954 | ||
Elven Warrior
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It's about time someone gave them an impediment in their reach. This is going to happen and soon, after which it will turn out that the world was behind America and its present allies (bless them one and all) all the time. R-i-i-i-i-i-i-ght. A Briton, G. K. Chesterton, said in 1922: "What I say is that when we realise that this ('conception of a nation with the soul of a church') exists at all, we see the whole position in a totally different perspective. We say that the Americans are doing something heroic or doing something insane, or doing it in an unworkable or unworthy fashion, instead of simply wondering what the devil they are doing." from "What Is America? I wonder how many who call America nasty names over this phase of the war on terrorism--and this includes some Americans, even some Americans who are old enough to know better--are simply doing it to be socially (or even in some parts of the world physically) safe, but really haven't a clue about America or 'what the devil we're doing.' Don't worry. Protest without understanding doesn't have a very long half-life, and radiated a very dim light from the start anyway.
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02-20-2003, 10:22 PM | #955 | ||
Elf Lord
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And about Iraq being a less powerful nation, I don't see how that changes things. Since Saddam's country is less powerful, it causes him to seek other methods to gain the power he craves. Hitler's threat was in conventional weapons, Saddam Hussein's strength is in weapons of mass destruction. Armed with these weapons, he still would be a grave danger to surrounding nations. Particularly as larger nations would be cautious in attacking him, lest he should respond with these weapons he has created. From the stance the UN has taken so far, I doubt we can expect much more from it at this later point in time. If Saddam does have weapons of mass destruction, by looking at his history, it can be seen pretty plainly that he would be a threat to the Middle East at large, and potentially to the West as well. While the ambition Hitler and Saddam had is the same, the methods by which this goal can be accomplished have changed with the times. I still am waiting to hear the alterate interpretation that I asked for, Elvellon. I'm waiting to hear a strong reason why they aren't similar, and why we shouldn't learn from the past. |
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02-20-2003, 10:38 PM | #956 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Protesting the Protesters Some of his questions really had them stumped. I like how he confronted them about the war for oil and asked them why the US just didn't go in during the Gulf War and take the oil.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 02-20-2003 at 10:40 PM. |
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02-20-2003, 11:29 PM | #957 | |
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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02-21-2003, 12:05 AM | #958 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
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Also - concerning Bushes "business cronies" - do you remember Clinton's first cabinet? Clinton basically brought in all his old drinking buddies to be his advisers. Clinton very much acted like the Beverly Hillbillies - except instead of going to Beverly Hills - he ended up in the White House.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 02-21-2003 at 12:06 AM. |
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02-21-2003, 01:07 AM | #959 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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This is rather interesting...
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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02-21-2003, 06:08 AM | #960 | |
The Quite Querulous Quendi
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Clinton achieved diddly squat in office because his relatively "left-wing" (I use that term very loosely ) executive was hamstrung by Congress and was nearly hounded out of office by right-wing federal prosecutors. JD, the collapse of communism had nothing at all to do with Reagan. He, like Bush Jr, was little more than a block of wood with some strings coming out the back. The lasting legacy of his era is a Supreme Court packed with right wingers. ANyway, back on topic, at least the Saudis are acknowledging that they're harbouring far more terrorists than Iraq is cheers d. Last edited by Dunadan : 02-21-2003 at 06:40 AM. |
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