03-20-2004, 05:52 PM | #921 | |
Elf Lord
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03-20-2004, 05:55 PM | #922 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
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As a Christian, I believe that Jesus was not delusional. Actually, the thought has never entered my mind. I believe Jesus was loving, passionate, and kind, and that He's the Son of God.
To people who aren't Christian, and therefore probably do not believe he was the Son of God, he may have seemed to be delusional. Or maybe not. I'm not sure what people's thoughts on this one are. Maybe Drgnslyer or Chrys could clarify that for us. What do you think about Joan of Arc? Was she inspired by God? I'm not sure we could ever know that personally.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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03-20-2004, 06:01 PM | #923 | |
The Intermittent One
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hope this clarifies buddhist position chrys |
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03-20-2004, 06:20 PM | #924 | ||||||||||||
Elf Lord
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03-20-2004, 06:50 PM | #925 |
Elf Lord
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I may have to leave this debate. I don't know for how long, but right now I've got a lot of writing activities to keep up on.
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03-20-2004, 08:09 PM | #926 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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03-20-2004, 08:17 PM | #927 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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it might very well be a fact that you have a purple sweater on... but if you chose to hide in your house 24/7 and say "trust me, it's purple", i'd have my doubts... and rightly so of course, in your case i do have faith in your word
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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03-20-2004, 08:35 PM | #928 | ||||||
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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03-20-2004, 09:53 PM | #929 | |||||||||||
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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03-20-2004, 10:24 PM | #930 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
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I don't think it's necessary to prove that Jesus is the Son of God, or that he preformed miracles. The important thing is that people believe that. And it's faith itself that's important to those who believe.
If you don't believe it, that's alright. I don't see a need to challenge anyone's beliefs, except for the purpose of an interesting discussion (which I hope is what this thread remains). Though Christianity isn't the be all end all of worldviews, being a Christian is a positive and wonderful thing.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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03-20-2004, 10:58 PM | #931 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
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I was christiened Protestant, my being born and growing up in the SE of England (a lightweight area where religion and politics is concerned) and church was a choice I had, my parents were not church people, my mother was a spritualist though, but my friends were church people so I toddled along with them, a believer all the same for quite a long time. And I've had a taste of all camps really, the belief scaling down over time, Christian to agnostic to athiest, or at least, I don't hold with an anthropomorphic god as a creator.
Religion I now believe is about preserving a community's socio-political forms and traditions, perhaps essential in early times of human settlement and previous to the invention of writing (for recording purposes) or the development of politics (for ordering purposes) - which I think put together that would be bureaucracy, wouldn't it (ah, the curious mysteries of red tape and the greedy god, Revenue)? |
03-21-2004, 12:25 AM | #932 | |
the Shrike
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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03-22-2004, 01:17 PM | #933 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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What I'm trying to deal with is the rather illogical (IMO) statements like "all religions are true". It's illogical to conclude this if there are ANY contradictory statements in ANY of the "religions" under consideration. That's my point.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-22-2004, 01:57 PM | #934 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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instead they are opinions... and as such, their truth is based upon an individual's pov... thus, while all religions are not true to any single person... different religions can be just as true to different people it's like if i said your sweater looks nice... this is not a fact, it is my opinion... someone who can't stand purple might call it tacky... this is just as true for them as my opinion is for me... there is no "universal truth" as to what is a "nice looking sweater"
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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03-22-2004, 05:25 PM | #935 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Well, I differ with you ... surprised?
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don't confuse "can't be verified right now" with "can't ever be verified" ... and the point of Christianity is not to "verify" God's existence, anyway; remember, the demons themselves have no question about the truth that God exists; they've seen Him themselves ... Quote:
People can have opinions about whether these statements are true or false, but the statements THEMSELVES are NOT opinions; they are either true or false, altho they might not be verifiable (or verifiable in a way that we would like them to be) at the present time by any abilities we now possess. And the Christian position is that NO person has ANY excuse for turning away from seeking God, because they have SUFFICIENT proof of His existence, in their hearts and in the glorious creation around them, on which to base their decision. It's NOT a matter of "I don't have enough proof" - it's a HEART matter. Satan had enough proof ... It's my OPINION that Christianity is true; it's your OPINION that it's not. But Christianity (or a given statement within Christianity) either IS or ISN'T true - it is not itself an opinion. For example, it's my opinion that the statement: "God, as described in the Bible, exists" is true. From what I can tell, it's your opinion that that statement is false. We may never know (altho I know that we will ) whether it's true or false, but it MUST be either one way or another, or there is no purpose in language. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 03-22-2004 at 05:34 PM. |
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03-22-2004, 05:57 PM | #936 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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on the rest... if god must be a physical being, there may be an ultimate answer as to his/her/its existance... but if god is more of a collective concept (like good or evil, hate or love, nice or tacky) it may not be a simple yes/no question... it may have everything to do with point of view let's just say that religion is a method of conceptualizing our existance... as opposed to a purple sweater
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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03-22-2004, 06:46 PM | #937 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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And I disagree - something is not false until proven otherwise, except in US court protocol. To take the sweater example again: let's say you think my sweater is green, and Lief thinks my sweater is purple, and I actually AM wearing a purple sweater, but neither one of you guys know it. Are you saying that it's false that my sweater is purple, because neither one of you can currently prove it to be purple? Again, the true-ness of the statement has nothing to do with whether or not you or Lief can verify it at the time - it's either purple, or it's NOT. And your opinions will be shown to be either true or false, once you guys see me (let's meet at a Starbucks and chat - such fun! Lief lives w/in an hour or so of me - you're a bit farther away ) And I'm still hoping to start the "why you believe what you believe" discussion soon - looks like it might actually happen soon, because GLB is done for now, I think.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-22-2004, 06:48 PM | #938 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-22-2004, 10:49 PM | #939 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
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i could postulate that sentient beings live around us that exist in such a way that we can not see them, or interact with them, something like poltergists from common mythology... to take it one step further... maybe they actually do exist... but until they can be perceived by us, for all practical purposes they do not exist god is in the same category... he may very well be out there... but until he makes an appearence, it is all just speculation with no basis in verifiable fact
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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03-23-2004, 04:42 PM | #940 | |
Enting
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Katie |
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