03-01-2007, 05:34 PM | #921 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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You said, "No, I disagree, Rian." and "They're not assumed to be true."
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 03-01-2007 at 05:36 PM. |
03-01-2007, 05:55 PM | #922 |
Elf Lord
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And?
I think there's an important, if possibly subtle, distinction to be made between something that exists socially (such as agreement on axioms or postulates) and something that may exist independently (such as assumptions) when the point at issue is an inability to communicate, which is, in essence, a social issue. That's what I was originally pointing out, and THAT'S why your fluxuation between common and mathematical uses of the word "assume" has me using another term.
And, if I may ask, is there a reason you've been riding me so hard in this? Because I'm sure feeling that you're past the point where it looks necessary for contesting my statement, which is that, in some respects, we must all agree to disagree. Seems like an awful lot of energy expended in disagreeing with THAT. |
03-01-2007, 06:17 PM | #923 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I'm riding you hard because you've been riding me hard over "assumed". I'm NOT contesting your statement that "in some respects, we must all agree to disagree." I'm contesting your statement "They're [postulates/axioms] not assumed to be true." which was directly contradicting my statement that postulates/axioms ARE assumed to be true (you quoted my statement and then made yours).
You started the whole thing by picking at my use of the word "assumed". Fine - but back it up, and if I show I'm right, then admit it Then when I provide a dictionary definition to show that I was right in using "assumed", you never concede I was right - you just keep trying to show that you were right in using "agreed" (even though I said I was fine with using "agreed"!), and insult me by telling me that I didn't read your quote closely enough (and your word wasn't even there!). I just got to be curious to see if you would ever concede that I was right in my use of "assumed". You haven't. So I'm done.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 03-01-2007 at 06:24 PM. |
03-02-2007, 10:15 PM | #924 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Quote:
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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03-03-2007, 12:46 AM | #925 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Since all logic is relative (the truth is what you choose to believe), it's all sophistry when you get right down to it, which is not necessarily a bad thing if you are able to accept this fact. I don't think Plato ever wanted to.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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03-03-2007, 06:12 PM | #926 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Logic is not relative; that's even more absurd then saying truth is relative.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
03-03-2007, 09:32 PM | #927 |
Word Santa Claus
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Logic is based on premises.
These premises are at least negotiable, if not relative. The process of logic FROM those premises is not relative. But the premises may be.
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03-04-2007, 12:52 AM | #928 | |
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We build the framework, like Plato and his forms, then make deductions based upon that framework. But things within that framework are only "logical" if we accept that particular framework at every step along the way. So it's really more what we call sophistry today than what we would call true logic. For instance, we envision a loving god and thus make theological deductions from that premise, but we haven't observed god. There may be one, there may not be one. He may be loving, he may not be loving. And futhermore, what one person considers a loving act may be quite different from what another does. Each and every aspect we apply to this being, and his actions, are what we choose to make them. There is no logic, outside the relative kind, in any speculation about such a being. Real logic, on the other hand, applies to things we can observe. Of course, observation in and of itself is also relative, so even that logic is suspect. Though, since all humans have the same powers of observation, more or less, we can call it real because those things are logical among all humans, as opposed to the logic that varies by the individual.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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03-04-2007, 09:39 AM | #929 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
Mr.a priori, meet Mr.a posteriori.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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03-05-2007, 12:29 AM | #930 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Quote:
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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03-05-2007, 12:31 AM | #931 |
of the House of Fëanor
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The god is dead. Long live the god!!
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 03-05-2007 at 01:04 AM. |
03-05-2007, 01:35 AM | #932 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Browns: see above.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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03-05-2007, 08:20 AM | #933 |
Word Santa Claus
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I was clarifying, not arguing.
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03-05-2007, 11:44 PM | #934 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Fair enough; I'll go with that.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
03-06-2007, 04:40 AM | #935 | |
Elf Lord
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I do intend to respond to the posts still waiting for me, here. I just don't have time yet . Bit of a school crunch. Plus, this weekend I've been distracted by what I think are some very cool insights into parts of the Bible I hadn't understood before.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 03-06-2007 at 04:44 AM. |
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03-06-2007, 05:16 AM | #936 | |
Elf Lord
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Balderdash! Scamper thee away into a pot of piddle thou piddling pooper! I beleive this has been already covered - ... although, logically ... your statement (based on an untrue initial statement) and leading to an untrue conclusion might be said to be logically valid! anyone got a mirror? |
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03-06-2007, 09:20 AM | #937 | |
Elf Lord
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"I don't." said Scrooge. "What evidence would you have of my reality, beyond that of your senses?" "I don't know," said Scrooge. "Why do you doubt your senses?" "Because," said Scrooge, "a little thing affects them. A slight disorder of the stomach makes them cheats. You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato. There's more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are!" Charles Dickens, "A Christmas Carol" |
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03-06-2007, 03:06 PM | #938 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Myths which are believed in tend to become true. ~ George Orwell
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
03-08-2007, 02:13 AM | #939 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
Baloney .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-08-2007, 02:28 PM | #940 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Quote:
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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