Abortion.

[elven dragonrider]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I don't know much about birth control. If it merely keeps conception from happening, I have no problem with it. If it destroys the zygote after conception, I do have a problem with it.

Then you don't have a problem with it. The problem is then the kids are raised in that environment, and the mothers keep having kids so they can get more money from welfare each month. Nevermind feeding the children. It is not just the Catholics, they are just the ones saying no birth control so their religion expands. It is the rest of the world that doesn't have any excuses.

[Jonathan]

Theology III

Originally Posted by elven dragonrider in the Theology III thread

Very profound, I like. Did you know the crime rate went down substantially when abortion was legal though? The reason is because those babies that would be the ones to do crime were not being born.

IMO, a correlation here is highly dubious.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I don't know much about birth control. If it merely keeps conception from happening, I have no problem with it.

And that's exactly what birth control/contraception does

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by elven dragonrider

Then you don't have a problem with it. The problem is then the kids are raised in that environment, and the mothers keep having kids so they can get more money from welfare each month. Nevermind feeding the children. It is not just the Catholics, they are just the ones saying no birth control so their religion expands. It is the rest of the world that doesn't have any excuses.

Trust me, you're lucky I'm getting here before Gwai logs on.

There are a lot of people having big families, in the US, and other places.

Some of them are Catholic, many are not.

Some have large families through lack of choice, some have large families AS a choice. Search "quiverful." That's just one contemporary POV.

Some support their families without welfare.

Welfare is designed as a social net for children. Current limits on it, both in time and amounts, make it a more (imo) difficult way to support yourself than regular work. Birthing babies is tiring, to start.

Complicated as Catholic stands on reproduction are, they probably aren't solely based in a desire to expand the religion.

Who needs excuses? And for what?

You emptied the whole suitcase, here...I'm confused!

[brownjenkins]

I think most christians who oppose contraception, and there are many that do not, typically do so because they see marriage and sexual union as a divine experience that should not be tampered with.

It's similar to homosexual unions. You can argue statistics 'til you are blue in the face (trust me ), but the overwhelming reason is that they don't think it is how god wants things to be.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

And that's exactly what birth control/contraception does

Originally Posted by elven dragonrider

Then you don't have a problem with it.

Okay .

Originally Posted by elven dragonrider

The problem is then the kids are raised in that environment, and the mothers keep having kids so they can get more money from welfare each month. Nevermind feeding the children. It is not just the Catholics, they are just the ones saying no birth control so their religion expands. It is the rest of the world that doesn't have any excuses.

Hmm. Here, you also know more than I do, so I can't offer much comment beyond "hmm" .

I'll have to know more from examining the arguments of both sides, before I can personally form a view on this.

[elven dragonrider]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Some support their families without welfare.
Welfare is designed as a social net for children. Current limits on it, both in time and amounts, make it a more (imo) difficult way to support yourself than regular work. Birthing babies is tiring, to start.
Complicated as Catholic stands on reproduction are, they probably aren't solely based in a desire to expand the religion.
Who needs excuses? And for what?

Sincerely not trying to insult anyone's status, but who is Gwai?
How exactly do you plan on supporing a family if you don't work and you don't take welfare? Most don't have big families as a choice, it is because someone tells them to. Look at China, they tell them to have children until they have a boy, and then they dump the girls out on the street because they will be disowned if they don't have a boy. What is it with our warped "you must have a boy" society? I agree that they are not solely based on expansion, but that is a huge part of it. Nobody needs excuses, just some people have them. The Catholics are told to have kids, so they have kids. That is their excuse. The people in China who keep having kids and dumping them on the street though- that is unacceptable. In the Middle-East, the men tell them to have more boys, so they keep having kids. That is horrible to put such pressure on the women to have boys so they just keep having kids. Okay, I am done tiring myself out on the subject. I may be able to go attempt algebra now without tearing the book up. Actually I did purposely tear the paperback student pages book into three sections because it was ridiculously monstrous, and now I only have to carry around a neat little book.
Beware folks, I have a femenine green leather crown with steel spikes. Anyone top that in the weapons department? It is quite pretty really, It has little delicate chains that frame your face hanging from the spikes. I got it at Renn Fair, so I thought tis was the place to flaunt about it. It scared my fellow 4-H'ers half to death. Well maybe four fiths to death, actually. They were not expecting innocent little star horse judger me to wear that.

[Prince Myshkin]

Originally Posted by elven dragonrider

Sincerely not trying to insult anyone's status, but who is Gwai?
How exactly do you plan on supporing a family if you don't work and you don't take welfare? Most don't have big families as a choice, it is because someone tells them to. Look at China, they tell them to have children until they have a boy, and then they dump the girls out on the street because they will be disowned if they don't have a boy. What is it with our warped "you must have a boy" society? I agree that they are not solely based on expansion, but that is a huge part of it. Nobody needs excuses, just some people have them. The Catholics are told to have kids, so they have kids. That is their excuse. The people in China who keep having kids and dumping them on the street though- that is unacceptable. In the Middle-East, the men tell them to have more boys, so they keep having kids. That is horrible to put such pressure on the women to have boys so they just keep having kids. Okay, I am done tiring myself out on the subject. I may be able to go attempt algebra now without tearing the book up. Actually I did purposely tear the paperback student pages book into three sections because it was ridiculously monstrous, and now I only have to carry around a neat little book.
Beware folks, I have a femenine green leather crown with steel spikes. Anyone top that in the weapons department? It is quite pretty really, It has little delicate chains that frame your face hanging from the spikes. I got it at Renn Fair, so I thought tis was the place to flaunt about it. It scared my fellow 4-H'ers half to death. Well maybe four fiths to death, actually. They were not expecting innocent little star horse judger me to wear that.

In China, the reason there is such pressure to have a boy does make sense, while I'm not supporting it as a system. In China, when you have a boy as one of your two allowed children, he goes on to honor the family name and help support your extended family. China being a collectivist culture is very into the whole extended famly thing
If, on the other hand, you have girls, you allow them to get married and have happy lives... No one is out continuing your family name into the next generation, and on top of that YOUR family foots the bill for the wedding

While I'm aware there are more sizeable issues involved these are a couple I thought i'd bring up

BTW that sounds like a pretty rockin' crown

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by elven dragonrider

Sincerely not trying to insult anyone's status, but who is Gwai?

He's the resident sophist.

[elven dragonrider]

Originally Posted by Prince Myshkin

In China, the reason there is such pressure to have a boy does make sense, while I'm not supporting it as a system. In China, when you have a boy as one of your two allowed children, he goes on to honor the family name and help support your extended family. China being a collectivist culture is very into the whole extended famly thing
If, on the other hand, you have girls, you allow them to get married and have happy lives... No one is out continuing your family name into the next generation, and on top of that YOUR family foots the bill for the wedding

While I'm aware there are more sizeable issues involved these are a couple I thought i'd bring up

BTW that sounds like a pretty rockin' crown

I agree, I just think the whole thing is warped.
Thanks!

[elven dragonrider]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

He's the resident sophist.

Oh, uh, okay. I found out who he was about fiften minutes after I posted this. Thanks.
Oh, and does anyone have any favorite odd canides they particularily admire? I happen to be sugar plum obsessed. I didn't even know they existed until about ayear ago, but ever since then I eat one every other day. (I would eat more, but they are expensive.)

[faerie_child]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Trust me, you're lucky I'm getting here before Gwai logs on.

There are a lot of people having big families, in the US, and other places.

Some of them are Catholic, many are not.

Some have large families through lack of choice, some have large families AS a choice. Search "quiverful." That's just one contemporary POV.

Some support their families without welfare.

Welfare is designed as a social net for children. Current limits on it, both in time and amounts, make it a more (imo) difficult way to support yourself than regular work. Birthing babies is tiring, to start.

Complicated as Catholic stands on reproduction are, they probably aren't solely based in a desire to expand the religion.

Who needs excuses? And for what?

You emptied the whole suitcase, here...I'm confused!

My hang up is that people don't seem to think that it's cruel to put kids into the world that will probably starve, and probably never have the chance to grow up and become a productive member of society. That's how I feel.

[elven dragonrider]

Hello there! Glad to see ya!
I agree completely.

[faerie_child]

Originally Posted by elven dragonrider

Hello there! Glad to see ya!
I agree completely.

Hello! This is a little off topic, but my opinion is the same with spaying and neutering pets. Why let your animals bring puppies and kittens into the world that will probably die, get sick, or become public nuscenses and spread disease (I know that's not spelled right)

[elven dragonrider]

I agree! I have this friend with this really good male german sheperd, but then they breed it to this mutt all the time and it makes me so mad...

[faerie_child]

Originally Posted by elven dragonrider

I agree! I have this friend with this really good male german sheperd, but then they breed it to this mutt all the time and it makes me so mad...

It's a big problem here, especially with these unliscened breeding facilities, the puppies get out, get rabies, and bite people.

[elven dragonrider]

Rabies... a close relative of mine majored in that. Even the liscensed ones that aren't any good. We only get our dogs from the #1 Australian Shepherd breeder and shower, and from the pound. (or the side of the road)

[faerie_child]

Originally Posted by elven dragonrider

Rabies... a close relative of mine majored in that. Even the liscensed ones that aren't any good. We only get our dogs from the #1 Australian Shepherd breeder and shower, and from the pound. (or the side of the road)

Us too.

[Prince Myshkin]

how this has gone from the serious abortion thread to the EQUALLY serious rabies thread
But hey, I have to admit that I'm a bad person

That's just me.

But for the record I DON'T support rabies or hydrophobia... or foamed polystyrene... bad for the enviroment wot wot... lol

I personally think I'm a riot.

[elven dragonrider]

uh, oh, okay. I thought that was an interesting transformation too.
Why are you a bad person? you may have said it plain as day, but I havea hard time seeing the difference between day and mud.

[Prince Myshkin]

going into the reasons that I'm a bad person would be lengthy

you're not missing much. But who knows maybe I'll start a thread The Reasons Prince Myshkin is a bad Person

Or maybe not

But back to abortion..........