Discussion Thread Number 3 Of Wraiths-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign - Page 46

Udukhaturz · 11-25-2005, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

nay, there is much we can do ... wine therapy!

plus there's always the donkeys ...

mind you ... keeping lilly quiet by getting her drunk is one novel approach ...

could be an interesting evening at the swan .... are you sure we cannot get udu so drunk he forgets the sobering spell?

BB,

Getting her drunk with wine therapy is worth a try.

I think Udu will be very forgetful when it comes to the sobering spell.

"And what about Buz-Penny? He is getting drunk somewhere at the docs... What if he comes to look for his Lilly?" - Gordis

Gordis, two drunken Nazgul and two drunken mortals. There could be an altercation in the Singing Swan if he comes looking for her.

What a scandal if the constable has to call out the guard for reinforcements!

Butterbeer · 11-25-2005, 08:45 PM

funny you should mention that .... constable BB of the flying squad may well be in need of a drink at the swan ...

mind, when i said "precisely" in reply to gor's post i meant about lilly only being afflicted for a short while .... i'm not sure if Buz coming from the docks and a brawl is a great idea ...

course if barli turns up, it'd be three drunk mortals after a while ...

but then the rest of his day would have to be drunken flashbacks ....

actually i like that idea ... can keep the plot a touch mysterious ...

Butterbeer · 11-25-2005, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Getting her drunk with wine therapy is worth a try.

Doctor Udukhaturz, our diagnosis's concur. now to business .. our patient needs our gentle medical care ...

edit**

Doctor GW, Doctor Anduril do you concur with me, Doctor BB, that we have a fellow practiconer here who should be included in our practice?

Serenoli · 11-26-2005, 12:10 AM

Gordis, lovely post, very very educational!

BB, CS and Udu - I'm still in hysterics! Its too funny! I loved esp. the way the light fell on Jas' face, and made him look like an angel... and the misplaced quote about the hands of a healer!! You guys made a real hero out of him all right!

And I corrected my last post, and Pelargir has replaced Dol Amrath.. happy now Val?

Udukhaturz · 11-26-2005, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenoli

BB, CS and Udu - I'm still in hysterics! Its too funny! I loved esp. the way the light fell on Jas' face, and made him look like an angel... and the misplaced quote about the hands of a healer!! You guys made a real hero out of him all right!

BB outdid himself on that one. I had a real laugh about it... hands of a healer. hehehe

***Valandil*** · 11-26-2005, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenoli

And I corrected my last post, and Pelargir has replaced Dol Amrath.. happy now Val?

Oh - I'm ALWAYS happy!

Thank you though.

As for you others, are you sure you won't further LOOSEN Lilly's tongue with the application of wine?

As we progress along in this game, I think it could be quite amusing if constable BB is the one who finally uncovers what's truly going on. He'll need to totally bumble into it though.

Grey_Wolf · 11-26-2005, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

Doctor Udukhaturz, our diagnosis's concur. now to business .. our patient needs our gentle medical care ...

edit**

Doctor GW, Doctor Anduril do you concur with me, Doctor BB, that we have a fellow practiconer here who should be included in our practice?

I certainly do

.

CrazySquirrel · 11-26-2005, 05:23 PM

Udu, I have had a good look at the Black Speech links you provided. My, it is a difficult language! Please, correct poor silly Lilly, if she made mistakes (as she surely did)!

So, Lilly shrieked at the game, got drunk, bespelled Khamul, quarreled with the Captain, went shoping, compromised Udu, danced in a jewelry shop, disobeyed Khamul and collapsed in an inn.

Question: What hasn't she done yet? Yes, Riiiight, she hasn't spoken in Black Speech!
So, here it is.

Gordis · 11-26-2005, 06:50 PM

Val,, nice post! Glad you are with us again

So, Valandil doesn't see the need for a fleet!

Geopolitics is not his strong point. He must be taught wisdom.

Udu, CS, BB! I am waiting eagerly for continuation.

Lotesse, Shah? You OK???

***Valandil*** · 11-26-2005, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordis

Val,, nice post! Glad you are with us again

So, Valandil doesn't see the need for a fleet!

Geopolitics is not his strong point. He must be taught wisdom.

I thought the old "I'll never USE this" would be funny - it seems to be a typical refrain among students in general.

And - I think it would be quite reasonable for Val and the Arnorians to gradually think they had less and less need to be a sea-going people. Even those of Gondor became much less so after the Kin-strife.

Oh - your mention of Umbar. I suspect that Umbar and all the southern realms would have thrown in their allegiance with Elendil after the drowning of Numenor. Once Sauron declared himself and made war, I suspect that most or all switched back over to him - then once the war was over, came back within the sphere of Gondor-Arnor. Don't you think so? Then it was probably back-and-forth a couple times until Eldacar of Gondor drove the sons of Calimehtar off to Umbar. From then on, I think it was always hostile to Gondor.

So - I don't really see Umbar as a rival kingdom to Gondor at this point... though maybe it could be positioning itself...

Butterbeer · 11-26-2005, 07:19 PM

well, i don't want to be a warmongeror, but i think we should declare war on southern gondor!

those pesky guards ..what are they doing here anyway?

they do not show you enough respect Valandil, high king ...

Mr O is right ...

I think the king should be encouraged to arm the free north, to build a fleet!

maybe we could drum up some support and feeling in the city?

a kind of 'the tharbad tea party'?

well, i'm off to read the rpg ...

Udukhaturz · 11-26-2005, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazySquirrel

Udu, I have had a good look at the Black Speech links you provided. My, it is a difficult language! Please, correct poor silly Lilly, if she made mistakes (as she surely did)!

Lilly did very well, but there are a few slight errors.

"Puzg nûlat-izish, fakhthal-glob!" (Stop hurting me, you stupid butcher!)
“Nûlat” should be “nûlug” (-ug is the verb present active participle, ie pushdug = stinking). Since “stop” is a command, there is no need to write the whole sentence out (ie, “Lat puzg nûl-izish”). There does not have to be any hyphen between “fakhthal” and “glob.”

"Gashn-izg laazgdush oztat" (I command magic shield to appear)

This sentence has no grammar errors in it. There could be a space between “laazg” and “dush” but given the content, it is not really necessary. With a space, it would indicate a shield that is magic, but without the space, a new word is created. That is how one creates a new word in LOS Black Speech, by sticking parts of other words together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazySquirrel

So, Lilly shrieked at the game, got drunk, bespelled Khamul, quarreled with the Captain, went shoping, compromised Udu, danced in a jewelry shop, disobeyed Khamul and collapsed in an inn.

Question: What hasn't she done yet? Yes, Riiiight, she hasn't spoken in Black Speech!
So, here it is.

She has now, and has done very well. I give her a grade of "A."

Gordis · 11-26-2005, 07:31 PM

I am not quite sure about Umbar, I shall have to look for exact quotes, but I distinctly have an impression that Umbar traditionally was more a city of King's Men, not the Faithful. Later they turned to Sauron and became known as Black Numenoreans. I believe Umbar was independant till 933 of the Third Age, when the harbor and fortress of Umbar was captured by King Earnil I of Gondor. Then Umbar belonged to Gondor - till the Kin-strife.

Butterbeer · 11-26-2005, 07:32 PM

Quote:

He wondered what Aiwendis was doing...

hah!

he's not the only one ... brews a love potion and then ... hides?

maybe she should have a chat with lilly about some revealing dresses or something?

yeah, where are you lotesse and shah? .. hope you are both well...

best all BB

***Valandil*** · 11-26-2005, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordis

I am not quite sure about Umbar, I shall have to look for exact quotes, but I distinctly have an impression that Umbar traditionally was more a city of King's Men, not the Faithful. Later they turned to Sauron and became known as Black Numenoreans. I believe Umbar was independant till 933 of the Third Age, when the harbor and fortress of Umbar was captured by King Earnil I of Gondor. Then Umbar belonged to Gondor - till the Kin-strife.

Yes - I think those of Umbar were always King's Men in their hearts. However, I suspect at certain times (after the Fall of Numenor and at the start of the Third Age), it may have been expedient for them to be good allies with the good guys. Also - I think Tarannon Falastur probably conquered them earlier, if one of his predecessors had not already done so. Otherwise, I don't think he would have married Beruthiel - who was either from Umbar or further south (and I doubt he would have 'leap-frogged' and passed over Umbar to conquer something further south - Umbar could have wreaked havoc on his shipping).

Gordis · 11-26-2005, 07:48 PM

No, Umbar was conquered in 933, it is clear from the Tale of Years. As for Beruthiel... I think it was a diplomatic marriage, to try to settle matters with Umbar peacefully. But the marriage failed, and then open was with Umbar ensued.
I just found this site, by the way. http://www.sospello.com/umbar/history.htm
Still I have to check the Silm(?) about Umbar.

Gordis · 11-26-2005, 08:19 PM

I have not found any direct evidence about Umbar's allegiance around TA 5o, but some indirect there is:

OF THE RINGS OF POWER AND THE THIRD AGE
"Isildur and Anárion were borne away southwards, and at the last they brought their ships up the Great River Anduin, that flows out of Rhovanion into the western sea in the Bay of Belfalas; and they established a realm in those lands that were after called Gondor, whereas the Northern Kingdom was named Arnor. Long before in the days of their power the mariners of Númenor had established a haven and strong places about the mouths of Anduin, in despite of Sauron in the Black Land that lay nigh upon the east. In the later days to this haven came only the Faithful of Númenor, and many therefore of the folk of the coastlands in that region were in whole or in part akin to the Elf-friends and the people of Elendil, and they welcomed his sons. "

This haven is certainly Pelargir, not Umbar. No other haven is mentioned when the strong places of Isildur and Anarion are described. So Umbar must have been hostile to Gondor before the Last Alliance

And right before the War (same source):
"And Sauron gathered to him great strength of his servants out of the east and the south; and among them were not a few of the high race of Númenor. For in the days of the sojourn of Sauron in that land the hearts of well nigh all its people had been turned towards darkness. Therefore many of those who sailed east in that time and made fortresses and dwellings upon the coasts were already bent to his will, and they served him still gladly in Middle-earth. But because of the power of Gil-galad these renegades, lords both mighty and evil, for the most part took up their abodes in the southlands far away; yet two there were, Herumor and Fuinur, who rose to power among the Haradrim, a great and cruel people that dwelt in the wide lands south of Mordor beyond the mouths of Anduin"
I bet, Umbar was kept by Herumor and Fuinur (probably one of them was an ancestor of queen Beruthiel.)

As for the War, the victory was obtained with great losses, Gondor and Arnor weakened. I doubt they had forces to march on Sauron's allies, like Umbar and Harad and further south. And it is clear from "GONDOR AND THE HEIRS OF ANÁRION" that Umbar was free from Gondor for almost a millennium:

"With Tarannon, the twelfth king, began the line of the Ship-kings, who built navies and extended the sway of Gondor along the coasts west and south of the Mouths of Anduin. To commemorate his victories as Captain of the Hosts, Tarannon took the crown in the name of Falastur 'Lord of the Coasts'.
Eärnil I, his nephew, who succeeded him, repaired the ancient haven of Pelargir, and built a great navy. He laid siege by sea and land to Umbar, and took it, and it became a great harbour and fortress of the power of Gondor. But Eärnil did not long survive his triumph. He was lost with many ships and men in a great storm off Umbar. Ciryandil his son continued the building of ships; but the Men of the Harad, led by the lords that had been driven from Umbar, came up with great power against that stronghold, and Ciryandil fell in battle in Haradwaith.
For many years Umbar was invested, but could not be taken because of the sea-power of Gondor. Ciryaher son of Ciryandil bided his time, and at last when he had gathered strength he came down from the north by sea and by land, and crossing the River Harnen his armies utterly defeated the Men of the Harad, and their kings were compelled to acknowledge the overlordship of Gondor (1050). Ciryaher then took the name of Hyarmendacil 'South-victor'."

Si, Valandil, your cousin Meneldil has UMBAR NOT!

UMBAR IS FREE!!!

Lotesse · 11-26-2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordis

And what about Buz-Penny? He is getting drunk somewhere at the docs... What if he comes to look for his Lilly?

Since I'm the official Buz-minder, and since I miss posting (still waiting 4 the race finale), I'll post a little Buz action here soon.

Got some catch-up reading to do in the meantime, though; what I've read so far is suPERB! You guys are all the bomb! Love the Lilly & Udu stuff.

CrazySquirrel · 11-26-2005, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Udukhaturz

Lilly did very well, but there are a few slight errors.

"Puzg nûlat-izish, fakhthal-glob!" (Stop hurting me, you stupid butcher!)
“Nûlat” should be “nûlug” (-ug is the verb present active participle, ie pushdug = stinking). Since “stop” is a command, there is no need to write the whole sentence out (ie, “Lat puzg nûl-izish”). There does not have to be any hyphen between “fakhthal” and “glob.”
She has now, and has done very well. I give her a grade of "A."

CrazySquirrel jumps up and down in glee!

Thank you, Udu!
So "Lat puzg nûl-izish, fakhthal glob!" I shall go correct the post

Lotesse Yes, please, write for poor old Buz! He must be drunk now again

.

BB, Yes we must work on the public opinion in Tharbad. Make the King build a fleet!!!
FLEET!!!

Udukhaturz · 11-26-2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Since I'm the official Buz-minder, and since I miss posting (still waiting 4 the race finale), I'll post a little Buz action here soon.

Got some catch-up reading to do in the meantime, though; what I've read so far is suPERB! You guys are all the bomb! Love the Lilly & Udu stuff.

Lotesse, glad you are enjoying it. I hope you can get back in the act soon.

Gordis, some wonderful material there about Umbar. It is much appreciated.

11-25-2005, 08:45 PM	#902
Butterbeer Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: here and there Posts: 3,514	funny you should mention that .... constable BB of the flying squad may well be in need of a drink at the swan ... mind, when i said "precisely" in reply to gor's post i meant about lilly only being afflicted for a short while .... i'm not sure if Buz coming from the docks and a brawl is a great idea ... course if barli turns up, it'd be three drunk mortals after a while ... but then the rest of his day would have to be drunken flashbacks .... actually i like that idea ... can keep the plot a touch mysterious ... Last edited by Butterbeer : 11-25-2005 at 08:48 PM.

11-26-2005, 12:10 AM	#904
Serenoli Head of the Department for the Invention and Propagation of Sugar, Spice and Everything Nice! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ithilien Posts: 852	Gordis, lovely post, very very educational! BB, CS and Udu - I'm still in hysterics! Its too funny! I loved esp. the way the light fell on Jas' face, and made him look like an angel... and the misplaced quote about the hands of a healer!! You guys made a real hero out of him all right! And I corrected my last post, and Pelargir has replaced Dol Amrath.. happy now Val? __________________ "I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worthwhile?" Death thought about it. "Cats," he said eventually. "Cats are nice." -Terry Pratchett, Sourcery Join the Harry Potter discussion, click here Last edited by Serenoli : 11-26-2005 at 12:18 AM.

11-26-2005, 07:19 PM	#911
Butterbeer Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: here and there Posts: 3,514	well, i don't want to be a warmongeror, but i think we should declare war on southern gondor! those pesky guards ..what are they doing here anyway? they do not show you enough respect Valandil, high king ... Mr O is right ... I think the king should be encouraged to arm the free north, to build a fleet! maybe we could drum up some support and feeling in the city? a kind of 'the tharbad tea party'? well, i'm off to read the rpg ... Last edited by Butterbeer : 11-26-2005 at 07:33 PM.

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11-26-2005, 05:23 PM	#908
CrazySquirrel Shape-shifting, men-grabbing NAZGUL Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 796	Udu, I have had a good look at the Black Speech links you provided. My, it is a difficult language! Please, correct poor silly Lilly, if she made mistakes (as she surely did)! So, Lilly shrieked at the game, got drunk, bespelled Khamul, quarreled with the Captain, went shoping, compromised Udu, danced in a jewelry shop, disobeyed Khamul and collapsed in an inn. Question: What hasn't she done yet? Yes, Riiiight, she hasn't spoken in Black Speech! So, here it is.

11-26-2005, 06:50 PM	#909
Gordis Lady of the Ulairi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 2,783	Val,, nice post! Glad you are with us again So, Valandil doesn't see the need for a fleet! Geopolitics is not his strong point. He must be taught wisdom. Udu, CS, BB! I am waiting eagerly for continuation. Lotesse, Shah? You OK???

11-26-2005, 07:31 PM	#913
Gordis Lady of the Ulairi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 2,783	I am not quite sure about Umbar, I shall have to look for exact quotes, but I distinctly have an impression that Umbar traditionally was more a city of King's Men, not the Faithful. Later they turned to Sauron and became known as Black Numenoreans. I believe Umbar was independant till 933 of the Third Age, when the harbor and fortress of Umbar was captured by King Earnil I of Gondor. Then Umbar belonged to Gondor - till the Kin-strife.

11-26-2005, 07:48 PM	#916
Gordis Lady of the Ulairi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 2,783	No, Umbar was conquered in 933, it is clear from the Tale of Years. As for Beruthiel... I think it was a diplomatic marriage, to try to settle matters with Umbar peacefully. But the marriage failed, and then open was with Umbar ensued. I just found this site, by the way. http://www.sospello.com/umbar/history.htm Still I have to check the Silm(?) about Umbar.

11-26-2005, 08:19 PM	#917
Gordis Lady of the Ulairi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 2,783	I have not found any direct evidence about Umbar's allegiance around TA 5o, but some indirect there is: OF THE RINGS OF POWER AND THE THIRD AGE "Isildur and Anárion were borne away southwards, and at the last they brought their ships up the Great River Anduin, that flows out of Rhovanion into the western sea in the Bay of Belfalas; and they established a realm in those lands that were after called Gondor, whereas the Northern Kingdom was named Arnor. Long before in the days of their power the mariners of Númenor had established a haven and strong places about the mouths of Anduin, in despite of Sauron in the Black Land that lay nigh upon the east. In the later days to this haven came only the Faithful of Númenor, and many therefore of the folk of the coastlands in that region were in whole or in part akin to the Elf-friends and the people of Elendil, and they welcomed his sons. " This haven is certainly Pelargir, not Umbar. No other haven is mentioned when the strong places of Isildur and Anarion are described. So Umbar must have been hostile to Gondor before the Last Alliance And right before the War (same source): "And Sauron gathered to him great strength of his servants out of the east and the south; and among them were not a few of the high race of Númenor. For in the days of the sojourn of Sauron in that land the hearts of well nigh all its people had been turned towards darkness. Therefore many of those who sailed east in that time and made fortresses and dwellings upon the coasts were already bent to his will, and they served him still gladly in Middle-earth. But because of the power of Gil-galad these renegades, lords both mighty and evil, for the most part took up their abodes in the southlands far away; yet two there were, Herumor and Fuinur, who rose to power among the Haradrim, a great and cruel people that dwelt in the wide lands south of Mordor beyond the mouths of Anduin" I bet, Umbar was kept by Herumor and Fuinur (probably one of them was an ancestor of queen Beruthiel.) As for the War, the victory was obtained with great losses, Gondor and Arnor weakened. I doubt they had forces to march on Sauron's allies, like Umbar and Harad and further south. And it is clear from "GONDOR AND THE HEIRS OF ANÁRION" that Umbar was free from Gondor for almost a millennium: "With Tarannon, the twelfth king, began the line of the Ship-kings, who built navies and extended the sway of Gondor along the coasts west and south of the Mouths of Anduin. To commemorate his victories as Captain of the Hosts, Tarannon took the crown in the name of Falastur 'Lord of the Coasts'. Eärnil I, his nephew, who succeeded him, repaired the ancient haven of Pelargir, and built a great navy. He laid siege by sea and land to Umbar, and took it, and it became a great harbour and fortress of the power of Gondor. But Eärnil did not long survive his triumph. He was lost with many ships and men in a great storm off Umbar. Ciryandil his son continued the building of ships; but the Men of the Harad, led by the lords that had been driven from Umbar, came up with great power against that stronghold, and Ciryandil fell in battle in Haradwaith. For many years Umbar was invested, but could not be taken because of the sea-power of Gondor. Ciryaher son of Ciryandil bided his time, and at last when he had gathered strength he came down from the north by sea and by land, and crossing the River Harnen his armies utterly defeated the Men of the Harad, and their kings were compelled to acknowledge the overlordship of Gondor (1050). Ciryaher then took the name of Hyarmendacil 'South-victor'." Si, Valandil, your cousin Meneldil has UMBAR NOT! UMBAR IS FREE!!!