12-05-2005, 04:52 PM | #901 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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12-05-2005, 04:55 PM | #902 | ||
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An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ Last edited by Jonathan : 12-05-2005 at 04:58 PM. |
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12-05-2005, 05:01 PM | #903 | |
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12-05-2005, 05:01 PM | #904 | |
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1) leave it to the states 2) have the supreme court resolve the issue (which takes the decision away from the states, like in the case of interracial marriage) 3) pass a constitutional ammendment
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12-05-2005, 05:06 PM | #905 | |||
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no, actually i've never even seen a gay who wanted to marry, but thats beside the point i suppose.
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12-05-2005, 05:07 PM | #906 | |||
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12-05-2005, 05:09 PM | #907 | |
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An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ |
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12-05-2005, 05:10 PM | #908 | ||||||
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On a related note, if someone felt a state law was violating their rights, could they appeal to the Bill of Rights (or the Constitution)? (I'm asking so I can compare Canadian and American laws. I don't really know how American laws work when it gets down to the details.) Quote:
IRex's assessment was entirely relevant to the "majorities should not determine the rights of minorities" debate. He points out, with complete accuracy and utter relevancy, that the right of a pedophile to have sex with a child impinge upon the child's (another minority) right to not be abused and raped. Since the rights of one minority should not impinge on another's rights, there are laws against pedophelia. He then uses another entirely relevant example of gay marriage to point out that in this case, the rights of a different minority group are not impinging on anyone else's rights, thus it should be allowed. What IRex said has everything to do with your example! Also, if my statement about minority rights really can be picked apart, then go for it! Quote:
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The following is grossly simplified, but it works: Women: We have the right to vote. Some jerks: No, you don't. *the men go off and vote* *some very intelligent women present eloquent arguments* Men and women: You know, you Suffragettes were right. There really isn't a reason why women shouldn't get to vote. *women's right to vote is acknowledged* About fifty years later... Native people: Excuse me, we have the right to live in our traditional way of life and culture. The Canadian Government: Hm... I guess you do. Pierre Trudeau (then Prime Minister): *drafts the Charter of Rights and Freedoms* How's that? Native people: Much better. *complex land treaties begin, and old discussions continue with renewed vigour* Other Canadians: Hey, it's nice to know the government can't draft random laws that infringe on my rights. Not that they would, but it's nice to have that assurance. Twenty years later: Gordon Campbell (BC Premier): I just got elected, I will now hold a biased referendum on the Treaty process full of barely-disguised racism like I promised. BC Native people: Some BCers: Wouldn't a yes vote (changing the treaty process through a referendum) be illegal anyway? BC people in general: I don't know *vote yes* Lawyers and judges: This is illegal. It violates the Charter *throw the referendum results in the garbage* Some BCers: That's why the Charter is awesome! About three or so years ago now: Gay people: Excuse me, we have the right to get married too. Supreme court: *looks at the Charter and thinks about it for six months* Why yes, you do. There. That's how you can determine people's rights. People fight for their rights, and over many, many years, a consensus is built and it becomes law. (Er, yeah. Sorry that was so long. I got into my little condensed Canadian history there.)
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12-05-2005, 05:15 PM | #909 | |||
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cool, so you know that we already have equal -legal- rights. for everyone "all men are created equal". what you seemed to be saying earlier almost sounded like authoritarianism; after all in your hypothetical scenario who exaclty is deciding to give and take away rights?
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Last edited by rohirrim TR : 12-05-2005 at 05:17 PM. |
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12-05-2005, 05:16 PM | #910 | |
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Lol! Yay for the Canadian Charter
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An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ Last edited by Jonathan : 12-05-2005 at 05:22 PM. |
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12-05-2005, 05:27 PM | #911 | |
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you can not appeal directly to the supreme court... first, you must find a case that illustrates the case... then, bring it through the normal court system (local, state supreme, federal supreme) also, the supreme court can pick and choose which cases they wish to hear with little or no reasoning given
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12-05-2005, 05:27 PM | #912 | |||||
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If so, it's not arbitrary. The government determined the law, building upon, changing, or sometimes removing old laws, or adding new ones. The government was elected by the majority of Canadians. I should have been more clear though. The government acknowledges the rights of the people. (I believe, for example, that women have had the right to vote as long as voting has existed, but it took a while for this to be acknowledged.) I don't believe our government has ever taken away a right. Since its creation in 1982, the Charter has never been changed (though it is possible to change it). Quote:
edited to delete a random paragraph break
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Last edited by Nurvingiel : 12-05-2005 at 05:30 PM. |
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12-05-2005, 05:42 PM | #913 | |
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mmm... very interesting point here Rohirrim TR (thanks for the JD syndrome post btw ) but isn't the whole point here ("all men are created equal") that some are not effectively here (in context of your quote there and this thread) ... not seen as "men" in the traditional sense? (or women as the case may be, etc) isn't this the essence of the question? |
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12-05-2005, 05:46 PM | #914 | |||
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12-05-2005, 05:48 PM | #915 | |
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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12-05-2005, 06:14 PM | #916 | |||
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you asked if KNEW any that had been discriminated because they couldn't marry I don't KNOW any none of the homosexual people i have met even want to marry.
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12-05-2005, 06:20 PM | #917 | |||
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i'm a little confused BB "men" in context is simply refferring to individuals instead of a collective like mankind. but you're saying the problem is that gays for example aren't viewed as "men" in the customary sense?
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12-05-2005, 06:26 PM | #918 | |||
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edited for spelling
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12-05-2005, 06:32 PM | #919 | ||
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All those news shots were staged then? And the protests and law suits by specific gay couples was just in everyones imagination? You realize you are taking the same approach you do when rejecting evolution right? Denial is a poor choice to use as a tool when debating something. Quote:
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12-05-2005, 06:43 PM | #920 | |||
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