04-24-2002, 11:30 PM | #901 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
However, what's the alternative to random?
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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04-24-2002, 11:32 PM | #902 | |
Elf Lord
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Re: Re: Look at all the funny people
Quote:
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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04-24-2002, 11:42 PM | #903 |
Elf Lord
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Errr...
Historical accuracy is notoriously out of place when examining a collection of writings assembled by a multitude of writers over thousands of years, after having been passed through oral tradition for a comperable period of time. It's like a big game of telephone, and what emerges likely has been distorted to varying degrees by political and cultural bias, personal bias, changes in language during transcription, and transcription errors. It would be comperable to taking the history of the US, for example, and relying only on oral tradition for preservation until 3002, then transcribing the oral tradition, recopying it a couple of hundred times, and then translating it into Latin, Greek, and then Hebrew. What emerges would be very interesting reading, but you might be surprised to learn that George Washington slew King George in mortal combat with his handy hatchet.... Among other things. In short, yes there are likely some grains of truth there. But any relevant context has been lost long ago. It's useful as a history or moral and ethical traditions, and as a source of spiritual verse, but not much else will you get from it.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
04-24-2002, 11:46 PM | #904 | ||
the Shrike
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Quote:
________________________________ --Leto II, His Voice from Dar-es-Balat Quote:
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 04-24-2002 at 11:52 PM. |
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04-24-2002, 11:53 PM | #905 |
Elf Lord
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Non-random, very good.
Now what kinds of Non-random occurances are there? Since it's non-random, it can't be "chance". It's either a causal confluence of precursors, or a non-causal event. (non-causal event's can't be random, because they are "singular" and occur outside the normal set, or so I have been told)
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
04-25-2002, 12:07 AM | #906 | |
the Shrike
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The process of evolution is non-random. I believe I have a diatribe about this somewhere in the earlier part of the thread. Only about 2-3% of the processes (natural selection, genetics, etc) can really be considered to be random.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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04-25-2002, 12:43 AM | #907 | |
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They are events directly traceable to causal precursors. People call it random because they don't think about the concept of chaos as a recurring complex pattern. So, now that that’s out of the way, we can piddle around with the difference between directed and non-directed events. Both are metaphysical concepts, since you have to have free will in order to state that you have truly “directed” an action. Otherwise, you are the one being “directed”. Since free-will is at the root of an epistemological problem, it mucks everything up. Oh, I suppose you could take a default position and state that in the absence of evidence of direction, we must assume that it is non-directed. I think it’s just a human failing to be uncomfortable with the three hardest words in the English language. “I Don’t Know”. Oh- I almost forgot: *Smacks a gold star on her.... forehead*
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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04-25-2002, 01:08 AM | #908 | |
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Directed, vs non-directed? Well, given the current evidence, I would have to say, for the theory of evolution anyway, that it is seemingly non-directed. Natural selection, etc are causative, but they aren't directive (not heading for a goal). To elucidate further, the process of hominid evolution can be shown as an adaptative, and progressive occurance (of a sort), but the actual process is not being driven in towards a "finished product." Rather, you could probably look at it as, a series of directive actions upon an organism, towards a non-directive product, of sorts. Hm.... I must say, I hadn't really thought about it from this point of view. I'll have to retire to my cave, and ponder it a bit more.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 04-25-2002 at 01:14 AM. |
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04-25-2002, 05:19 AM | #909 | ||
The Original Corruptor
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Here is a brief review of More than A Carpenter
Ofcourse, that is just one person's opinion... Here is another... Here is a review of McDowell's Evidence That Demands a Verdict. Quote:
Quote:
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04-25-2002, 06:15 AM | #910 |
The Original Corruptor
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I would like to submit another contradiction, which I will designate C2 (meaning that the first one regarding the David census becomes C1):
How did Judas die? Acts 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. Matthew 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. Any explanations for this one? |
04-25-2002, 09:20 AM | #911 | |
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Asteroid impacts and episodes of intense volcanic activity that cause mass extinctions are "random" in that we may predict a high probability of these events but not when and where. The processes are random in effect. The causation of events cannot be traced to any "inevitablility" because at some point one must deal with the heisenburg uncertainty and the true randomness of the behavior of matter at the atomic and sub-atomic particles.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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04-25-2002, 09:26 AM | #912 |
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The death of the apostles does not imbue any additional truth to the bible. They were executed for political reasons. At the time they would have been found guilty before they were aprehended. The executions would have been fairly summary and any last minute recanting would have been useless anyway. They would have known this, and yes, add to that the human nature factor, there would have been some secret pride in becoming martyred.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
04-25-2002, 10:51 AM | #913 | |
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Evolution does display a trend towards a direction. Organisms which are able to adapt more quickly to their environment, and more efficiently utilize the resources within the environment to produce more copies are favored. That's a direction. There's also a trend towards exploiting all available resources in the environment. That's a direction. But you can't speak towards a goal, because evolution is a process. And a process may or may not have a goal, depending on whether it is directed or non directed. A "goal" implies directed behavior, which is metaphysically thorny, because you have to deal with the problem of free will. Anything metaphysical is unanswerable by science, since the problem impacts on the very nature of knowledge. Science concerns itself with the purely empirical. Which is as it should be. Problems arise when people get them mixed up.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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04-25-2002, 10:57 AM | #914 | |
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Umm. particles, quarks et all aren't "truely random". They obey specific laws and behaviors also. The theorys aren't up to predicting them accurately enough yet. All the uncertainty principle states is that you can't measure the vector and the position of a particle at the same time, therefore you can't know the vector and position of any given particle simultaneously. It's not a mystic veil, it's just a difficult problem.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... Last edited by Blackheart : 04-25-2002 at 11:00 AM. |
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04-25-2002, 11:10 AM | #915 |
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the difference between "believers" and scientist are that
the former attempt to force fact into their dogma while the latter attempt to form beliefs based of the facts
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
04-25-2002, 12:10 PM | #916 |
Elf Lord
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Errg.
Scientists are often guilty of the latter also, when a pet theory is challenged by new evidence. Say rather that science is supposed to operate in an unbiased fashion, but sometimes suffers from the same human failings, and you'll be on the mark. Fortunately for science it has some self correcting mechanisms built in, and such debates generally get sorted out, after a while, though occasionally it can take a surprisingly long time.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
04-25-2002, 12:28 PM | #917 | |
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Quote:
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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04-25-2002, 12:33 PM | #918 | |
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Eyes? bah. What you actually need is a sensitive field detector, coupled with an accurate enough model to simulate the actions of the particles. Then you just need enough calculation power. Difficult? Yes. Insurmountable? Not really.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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04-25-2002, 12:35 PM | #919 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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Quote:
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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04-25-2002, 12:37 PM | #920 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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...as for "random" please see chaos theory
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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