02-26-2007, 05:56 PM | #881 | |||
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1b. But when does one even call an evolved thing a human? And when did human ancestors start reproducing with two? Certainly, given evolution's premise of a one-celled thing, the first reproduction must have been asexual. Do you think that early human prototypes evolved the capability to reproduce with male/female exactly the same way, multiple times? I think it would be much more likely (not that I think it's very likely! ) for it to evolve once. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 02-26-2007 at 05:57 PM. |
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02-26-2007, 05:59 PM | #882 | ||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-26-2007, 06:03 PM | #883 | |
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02-26-2007, 06:18 PM | #884 | ||||||
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Theologically, I don't think that the Creation myth and ensuing generation times were meant to be taken literally. As in, they were not recording the exact year everything happened. The first date we actually know is when King Solomon was around, but in the Bible it isn't important when he or other people were around, what is important is the message of the Bible. Quote:
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02-26-2007, 07:16 PM | #885 | |||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 02-26-2007 at 07:17 PM. |
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02-26-2007, 07:48 PM | #886 | |
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oooh- that one looks juicy - mmmm, this one sure is sweet .... so - how far do you wish to follow this 'conjecture' argument / obvious fallacy (logically) ? and are you so certain of it we can all have mucho fun retrospcetively applying this infalliable wisdom to all you own previous posts and arguments here? because i tell you now, quite honestly and with no other aim but the truth - it just won't wash. Or do you wish to modify your haughty words here? (or do you prefer us all to thus tear through and apart all your previous arguments here, dissecting your very own arguments by using your very own logic, here espoused?) Last edited by Butterbeer : 02-26-2007 at 07:50 PM. |
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02-26-2007, 08:16 PM | #887 |
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I'm not sure what you mean, but I've never claimed to KNOW the truth about things like God or evolution. I'm usually very careful to say "I think" or things like that, because I realize that no one can KNOW in a scientific sense about things in the past, like our origins. And so when Nurvi said "We didn't arise out of two one-celled prototype things" like it was known fact, I thought it was a pretty strong statement to make, so I pointed out that no one knows that for sure. I just think it's important to differentiate between facts and conjecture, and certainly it's conjecture that we came from one, or two, or even ANY one-celled prototype things - and people tend to say it like it's a fact when it isn't.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 02-26-2007 at 08:19 PM. |
02-26-2007, 08:44 PM | #888 |
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then, on the same basis - you take back the "certainly" part of your statement?
which is it? |
02-26-2007, 11:58 PM | #889 |
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Do you mean in this sentence: "Certainly it's an opinion, if it can't be proven."
If so, no - that's not a statement about a guess about the past; it's a definition of a word. Or wait, I just noticed it in another post - do you mean in this sentence: "... certainly it's conjecture that we came from one, or two, or even ANY one-celled prototype things". Well, if that's the one you meant, then no, I don't take that back, either, because again, it's a definition of a word. If you're making a statement about something that you don't know for a fact, then it's conjecture. And no one knows for a fact where we came from, wouldn't you agree? Unless you mean something else? I mean, there's facts, there's definitions, and then there's conjecture, and I think it's important to differentiate between them.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
02-27-2007, 12:43 AM | #890 | |||||
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ToE proposes, basically, that over billions of years, one-celled prototype thingies were selected for hardiness and some formed symbiotic relationships. These then reproduced asexually, as one-celled prototype thingies (OCPTs ) do, continuing to form sybiotic relationships with other OCTPs. A note on symbiotic relationships: OCTPs would just randomly form symbiotic relationships, it's not like they made a conscious decision to work together. But, this advantage would mean that they would be more likely to survive to reproduce off-spring, thus, the increasing complexity described in ToE. Some would have relationships that weren't actually useful, so this would not give them an advantage to surviving and producing offspring. Anyway, the complexity and diversity of the organisms became such that one of the organisms was human beings. These are very complicated organisms who reproduce thusly. One OCPT (sperm) attaches itself to another, different OCPT (egg). They divide, and form four cells, and so on, sex ed class etc. This is sexual reproduction because only the male humans have sperm and the females have eggs. I hope I've done good ol' ToE justice here.
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02-27-2007, 01:18 PM | #891 | ||||
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Many things can be seen as referred to in the Bible which at the same time as not explicit there.[/QUOTE] Quote:
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02-27-2007, 01:29 PM | #892 | |
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lol
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Maybe "correct" is the word we're looking for. I've been thinking about this, and it occurs to me that we're kind of stranded at the basis of geometry. Euclidian geometry has postulates that Lobachevskian geometry doesn't use. They equally are 'true', but you can't use one to prove or disprove the other. Likewise, we're unlikely to get anywhere attempting to prove or disprove issues like the age of creation without shared postulates. |
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02-27-2007, 01:37 PM | #893 |
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thus we end up with 'Rianisms'
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02-27-2007, 01:55 PM | #894 | ||
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I still intend to respond to the posts here addressed to me! It'll just take a little while before I can sufficiently get my act together. School presseth.
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*Suddenly another thought occurs to Lief.* And by the same token, one can't use it to calculate the length of time the human race has been around, can one? That's very interesting to ponder. Quote:
But I would like to see a different example of something in Protestant beliefs that is really rooted in Catholic tradition and not in the Bible.
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02-27-2007, 03:05 PM | #895 | ||||||
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I do "agree with" Gwai here, though, that if you "agree with the string theory", this is another way of saying that your opinion is that it's true/correct. Is that what you mean? Quote:
"OCPTs" - I like that! Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 02-27-2007 at 03:07 PM. |
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02-28-2007, 06:31 PM | #896 | |||||||
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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02-28-2007, 06:44 PM | #897 | |
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*no comment* on a personal level, i'd go with that - ... but i have a concern over intellectual honesty in your arguments, sometimes |
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02-28-2007, 08:28 PM | #898 | |||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 02-28-2007 at 08:30 PM. |
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02-28-2007, 08:32 PM | #899 | |
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No, I disagree, Rian.
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And that's why it's pertinent here. People coming in with different sets of basic rules will always cross talk. |
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02-28-2007, 09:13 PM | #900 | |
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Not on a personal level but on an intellectual level did i state that - or would you like me to go quote the original post? Forgive me if i assume you intelligent enough to decipher between the two - the personal motive and dealings with the logic of the arguments or (and here is my rub) debateable techniques used willy nilly in your arguments) I'm sorry Rian, but if you can't see the sheer blinding difference between the personal and the logic of debate ... and mix one as the other, despite the clear demarkation ... one can only be "kicked in the guts" if it was personal - one should be, to a degree, at least dispassionate about the validity or strength of one's arguments- and not confuse an "alleged personal attack" as you seem to personalise it so - ... with a critique of the logic you employ in your debate... have the decency not to asume "a personal attack" when your logical arguments are questioned - the issue i raise is more of questionable debating technique than 'dishonesty' - in the sense you seem to imply - though quite how, i am not sure? Do not make personal, that which isn't so - but refers to the strength and nature of your argument. BB x |
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