03-18-2004, 03:52 AM | #881 | |||
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03-18-2004, 05:02 AM | #882 | |
Elven Warrior
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One thing that bothers me about that is the fact that you say that religious warfare isn't nescessarily bad for society... please forgive me if i'm wrong, but the slaughter of thousands of people, not to mention an army made entirely of children during the crusades *the army of children were sent in the belief that god would protect his children, and they would simply march into the holy land and claim it* is good for society? Again, forgive me if i'm wrong, however I find it hard to believe that any form of war is good for any society.
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If you must judge others.....do not judge others by the height they have climbed; rather, judge them by the depths they have risen from. Think before you act, but act before it's too late. He is a man of sense who does not grieve for what he has not, but rejoices in what he has. You can stand tall without standing on someone. You can be a victor without having victims. The Utopian Oldschool Champ. http://games.swirve.com/utopia www.Orderofavalon.com Last edited by Drgnslyer : 03-18-2004 at 05:04 AM. |
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03-18-2004, 08:10 AM | #883 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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Also - please don't judge Christianity entirely on the Crusades (why is it that's all I seem to hear about from those who have a problem with Christianity... 'The CRUSADES!!'??)... for one, they were 1000 years ago, for another - they were more about politics in Medievel Europe than about Christianity, for yet another - the Moslems had JUST TAKEN Jerusalem at that time, which provoked the first 'Crusade'... an attempt to re-take what had been a 'Christian-held' city (and THE Holy CITY - in their view) from those who had just taken it. I'll get back to some other misconceptions of Christianity I see in your posts later. Gotta go.
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03-18-2004, 10:32 AM | #884 | |
Quasi Evil
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03-18-2004, 11:15 AM | #885 | ||||
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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03-18-2004, 12:30 PM | #886 | |
Elf Lord
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03-18-2004, 01:36 PM | #887 |
Elf Lord
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[[/QUOTE] Originally posted by GrayMouser
I'm taking a walk on a nice winter's day, and I come across an apple tree. "Boy, I'd sure like a nice ripe apple- but wait, it's the middle of winter and there are no apples on the tree." So I take up my chainsaw and, in a fit of anger, chop the the offending tree down. How would you characterise my actions? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [QUOTE]Originally posted by Lief Erikson B]Irrational. Rather crazy. Illegal. Why? [/B] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark 11: "12The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14Then he said to the tree, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard him say it ...... 20In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. 21Peter remembered and said to Jesus, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered"
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill Last edited by GrayMouser : 03-18-2004 at 01:40 PM. |
03-18-2004, 01:49 PM | #888 | |
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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03-18-2004, 02:17 PM | #889 | |
Elven Warrior
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Bringing in an older question.... The five pointed star represents the Spirit, earth, water, wind, and fire, and is in actuality a symbol for prosperity and protection...much like the swastika was origionally a symbol of luck until bastardised and used in conjunction with a negative group. Many witches will still wear the pentagram *pointed up instead of the 'satanic symbol' which is pointed down* as a symbol for protection.
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If you must judge others.....do not judge others by the height they have climbed; rather, judge them by the depths they have risen from. Think before you act, but act before it's too late. He is a man of sense who does not grieve for what he has not, but rejoices in what he has. You can stand tall without standing on someone. You can be a victor without having victims. The Utopian Oldschool Champ. http://games.swirve.com/utopia www.Orderofavalon.com |
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03-18-2004, 02:48 PM | #890 | |||||
Advocatus Diaboli
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that said, the fact that the earth revolves around the sun is a fact because it can be demonstrated to anyone... independent of faith... this is not true of supreme beings Quote:
it creates a division in humanity where there doesn't have to be one... as long as you are secure in your own beliefs why does it matter one way or the other how well your "factual" evidence compares with another religion's... is it not possible that the monk's belief in nirvana is just as valid as your own belief in jesus christ? Quote:
as shakespeare said "the devil can cite scripture for his purpose" this is why i tend to lean more towards the eastern faiths, since their moral systems are presented more as advice than decrees... that said, a large portion of christian society these days view the bible in a similar light... more guidelines than steadfast "to the letter" words there is room in the world for both... but both must be respected as equally valid as far as such things go "Is it not true that, in, the study of languages, ethics, religions, and codes of manners, ‘He who knows but one knows none?'" ~ Bushido
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03-18-2004, 04:27 PM | #891 | |||
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I figured that's where you were going with that one, GrayMouser ... do you think it was just a case of a sudden bit of amazing stupidity of the Gospel writer for putting it in (since you seem to think it points to irrationality on the part of Jesus), or do you think there might be something else in that story? IOW, if the Gospel writers thought their case was weak and their goal in writing was ONLY to provide "proof" for their case, don't you think this is a rather odd lapse on their part to include this little story?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 03-18-2004 at 05:56 PM. |
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03-18-2004, 04:30 PM | #892 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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maybe he was just having a bad day
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03-18-2004, 05:05 PM | #893 |
Enting
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That is one of my favorite Bible stories (the fig tree). I don't think it demeans Jesus in any way. Remember, according to Christian faith, Jesus was the Son of God, but he was made human, so he wasn't perfect. He also had doubts in the Garden the night before he was crucified. As the goal in the life of a Christian is to emulate the life of Jesus, its nice to see that at times he doubted or could be petulant. It proves that he made mistakes just like we will, but that its okay in the end if we're sorry. I think its one of the most important stories in the Bible.
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03-18-2004, 05:08 PM | #894 |
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Note: most don't take this story as Jesus being upset about not being able to get a fig. It's viewed as both a demonstration of his power - and more importantly, an illustration to a prophecy He's making at the same time.
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
03-18-2004, 05:14 PM | #895 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
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03-18-2004, 06:02 PM | #896 | |
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That said, I'll add to my questions for GrayMouser - since he has often called me on the carpet for being intellectually lazy, I'll call him on the same thing! GM - what can you tell me about:
If you insist on bringing up this example to (apparently) show the irrationality of Jesus, then I will politely ask you these questions and ask you to withdraw your objection if you can't answer them Life is complex; a book that purports to deal with life should rationally be expected to be complex, at least in some places; don't you agree?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 03-18-2004 at 06:09 PM. |
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03-18-2004, 06:13 PM | #897 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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BTW, Lief, I loved your answer to GM's question! It shows your heart - you love the truth, and are fearless when it comes to thinking and seeking, and you have a heart of integrity, honesty, and courage.
Sorry to make you blush , but I just wanted to point that out. One of the coolest things about Christianity is that we can really love the truth and be fearless in seeking it out, because God Himself is truth. I'm so fortunate as to NEVER have to stoop to deception in these discussions; I want the truth, and I seek the truth, and anything but honesty and truth only hinder a discussion, IMO.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-18-2004, 08:57 PM | #898 | |
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Is there something wrong with viewing other religions through your own? And as a member of one religion, I think it is perfectly acceptable to deem other religions as "wrong", if I am of a religion that believes there is only one true way (to heaven). It makes logical sense.
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Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
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03-18-2004, 09:01 PM | #899 | |
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Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
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03-19-2004, 04:55 AM | #900 | |
Elf Lord
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However, Valandil was right. It wasn't religious warfare I was talking about with my wrongheaded pronoun usage- Christianity is what I was speaking of. |
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