Offshoot discussion of "what religion are you" thread

[Lizra]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem



I think there are many things about God which cannot really be understood;

So does make people who do so liars, or just stupid?
I think the opposite. I think that it's so much simpler that there was an intelligent Designer (even in a Deistic way) then that this just so HAPPENED to take place, and then THIS just so happened to take place, and then THIS just so happened to take place, and on, and on, and on.

There it is! There are so many things about God which cannot be understood...........So, I find it unbelievable! Plain and simple. Sure, it'd be simpler to say there was a (non understandable) intelligent designer, but my observation of the world is, it's anything BUT simple. All religions take their faith to the bank. More power to ya, and good luck! Why do you have Jersey Devil's avatar?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Thanks for the info, Hobbit. Sounded like you were saying that they were silly for thinking so; sorry for misreading you.

There are so many things about God which cannot be understood...........So, I find it unbelievable!

I take it then you think there is you cannot understand?

All religions take their faith to the bank.

I don't get it. Why do people think that because giving is a part of our faith, that means we're greedy? Do you think the pastor should go out and steal a loaf of bread from the local supermarket?

EDIT: It's a short-term conspiracy, for the New Jersey Devils-Ottawa Senators match...WHICH JERSEY WON.

[Lizra]

The bank of "everlasting life" you ninny! not money! I don't understand the middle sentence you made!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Oops. Beg pardon.

Erhem, yes...that SHOULD have read: "you think there is NOTHING you cannot understand". Dread mothly lord make typo.

[Elven Archer]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Bwahahahaha, now everyone try to wade through all THAT!

and that was alot of wading! after i got done reading it there were 3 more posts. for a second i thought JD posted all that cause of your avatar.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Hehehe.

Hardly.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
what is the difference between a bar mitzvah and a bat mitzvah?

It's similar to a confirmation.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Actually, the difference is that bar is male, and bat is female.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Bwahahahaha, now everyone try to wade through all THAT!

I did... damn... wish it was spam instead.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Man JerseyDevil is posting everywhere!

And y'know....I don't think I've ever heard you swear before, JD.

[Khamûl]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
Also, if a person has never been introduced to God/Jesus but still lives a righteous life then God will allow that person into His glory.

*jumps into the middle of the discussion*

Here we disagree. BoP/Sheena is right -- unless a person accepts Jesus, they won't get into heaven. Even if they've never heard about God or Jesus.

[azalea]

Just for everyone's info, the sentence "no man cometh to the Father but by me" is not interpreted "that way" by all denominations. There are those that read it differently, that he is saying "what I'm going to do is the only way everyone is going to be saved," not "Everyone who doesn't believe in me is going to Hell." I'm sure there are passages that can support either view, but I just thought I'd throw that into the mix for everyone's ponderation, that there are Christians out there that interpret that sentence differently than others.

Oh, and the "put your eyes out" passage can also be interpreted as Jesus using a strong visual image to get across an important point to people for whom a lot of these concepts were new and very foreign. I'm not saying it isn't true, that He didn't mean it literally necessarily, but that I don't think He expected everyone to put their eyes out (we'd all be blind ). He was trying to stress the importance of what He was saying, and He was saying lusting in your heart is just as bad as actually doing it, so don't do it. He said the sentence in question to drive the point home to the people He was addressing.
Just letting everyone know there are different ways of interpreting that among Christians.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Khamûl
*jumps into the middle of the discussion*

Here we disagree. BoP/Sheena is right -- unless a person accepts Jesus, they won't get into heaven. Even if they've never heard about God or Jesus.

That's how it was explained to me during all those years at Catholic school.

[cassiopeia]

Originally posted by azalea Oh, and the "put your eyes out" passage can also be interpreted as Jesus using a strong visual image to get across an important point to people for whom a lot of these concepts were new and very foreign. I'm not saying it isn't true, that He didn't mean it literally necessarily, but that I don't think He expected everyone to put their eyes out (we'd all be blind ). He was trying to stress the importance of what He was saying, and He was saying lusting in your heart is just as bad as actually doing it, so don't do it. He said the sentence in question to drive the point home to the people He was addressing.
Just letting everyone know there are different ways of interpreting that among Christians.

I knew I shouldn't have taken the Bible literally.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Not to mention the eye for an eye stuff! Then everyone would be very, very blind. Not good.

But anyway. I feel there haven't been very complete answers in some places, especially from Rian and Gwaimir. I certainly appreciate the effort made by both of you, don't get me wrong! However, I feel there could be more complete answers.

First, Rian, about the "fluffy god" stuff.

(3) This is a pretty simplistic analysis, IMO. I think your problem lies in a common misconception that non-Christians have - the (wrong) idea that "love" and "good" are only fluffy, nice, friendly things. As C.S. Lewis puts it, we want a "grandfather in heaven" who is rather senile and just wants to give us candy and let us have fun. We don't want a father who loves us and cares enough about us to correct us when we do wrong things.

Well, you've said many times now that we're taking a simplistic viewpoint, and that god is not "fluffy," however, it doesn't seem like you've actually answered the question.
It's been said many a time before, but I'm going to go off on my broken record thing again. . .how can God be considered loving, etc, when to not accept God is to go to Hell? How does is this "good" for the people, "God's children?" Instead of loving, even in a sort of parenting kind of way, this seems like a jealous, selfish god. "Accept me or suffer! I want you to worship only me! All other gods are false!" It's all through the bible, it seems, like with the golden calf. False idols and so on. And here I'm referring to God, not the Holy Trinity, and therefore including the Judaism. It's Old Testament stuff I'm referring to. Anyway. So, could you explain this to me? Please? I'd really appreciate it, because all the evidence I've heard thus far points to God being quite selfish and jealous, rather than loving.

Oh, and P.S. Rian, hope your parents anniversary went well!

Ok, Gwai, your turn
Earlier HOBBIT was asking about the Christian faith being considered the best and the only true one, above others:

I see no reason to believe in the Christian god over all other religions - its not better or worse than any others (

(btw, HOBBIT, I agree!)

I don't think you really answered THIS question, though you addressed it. I dunno if you were trying to, or not, but I'd love an answer, from you or any of the other Christians.

Ruinel: It's similar to a confirmation.

Actually, I think there's a seperate Confirmation ceremony later. We had one at our temple, anyway. That was the last of my participation with the temple, and by then I didn't consider myself Jewish in terms of faith, but I did it because a. my parents made me and, more importantly, b. because I, like HOBBIT said earlier, felt like it was paying respect to my ancestors and acknowledging my Jewish cultural heritage. Which, sadly in some ways, I don't really do much anymore, except perhaps to complain about all the bad genetics I got from that side of the family

[Sheeana]

Argh... Confusing - everyone's got JD's avatar. Did I do something very bad today, or something?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Eruviel Greenleaf
Actually, I think there's a seperate Confirmation ceremony later. We had one at our temple, anyway.

Yes... I know. I've been to enough. But she said she was Catholic, so I was trying to relate a ceremony she was familiar with. Actually in Catholicism, it is common to have a group Confirmation ceremony. Students from a the religious education class of that age spend two years in preparation (the time spent depends on your diocese). In this time, you have to pick a patron saint. I picked Joan of Arc. You are supposed to live your life in that saint's footsteps from the day of Confirmation until you die. Anyway, you are considerered an adult after the ceremony.

[Silme*Christian]

I think that would be a horible life to live, in someone elses footsteps.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Silme*Christian
I think that would be a horible life to live, in someone elses footsteps.

no... you are supposed to live your life as an adult from that point on and model your life after the good deed of that saint. Argh! Forget it! *throws hands up in the air* It doesn't matter anyway. It's all a bunch of hooey. All of it. Not just Catholic ceremonies, all of religion. A bunch of hooey.

[Silme*Christian]

Are you religious?