"Temporary" Venting Thread V

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Willow Oran

Maybe... but people can also locate your home from looking up your name in the phone book, and if they can access your Facebook photos in order to find the GPS coordinates then they already know your name and can find you by more conventional means.

Yes, but you know that if you tell the phone company to put your name in the phone book that it will be there. IOW, you are giving your permission for this info to be made public.

The point was that people didn't know this about the pictures, and it's not a natural conclusion (that their location was being put on pictures). The purpose of a phone book is to give address and contact info; however, this is not the purpose of a picture. A person might be willing to give another person a picture but not their address.

[Empress_Flynn]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

One of the things that I've always taught my kids is to be kind to people who are "serving" them (restaurant, store, etc.) - I've been there, and it really takes SO little on the part of a customer to make a server feel better. I tell them to see if you can make the person smile, and you usually can. It's amazing how much power we have for good, often at so little cost.

That's definitely a wonderful attitude to have (and to pass on to the next generation!) I just wish more people did as you did! And it really does take SO little! I'm happy when someone treats me like a human being as opposed to someone lower than them.

Honestly, I wish everyone was required to work in a "service" or retail position at some point in their lives. Maybe everyone would be just a little more considerate if they knew what it was like on the other side of the counter, so to speak.

[Tessar]

I'm not sure if I'm in a completely normal or an unbalanced relationship, but I am starting to do some serious considering and soul searching. Every story has two sides, but I feel like I am trying to evaluate things fairly an objectively, even though I know doing that perfectly is not possible. I am also taking a great deal of time making my decision, because I have to make sure it's the right one.

It has been over a year (since February) that I've been in this relationship. Over that time I have been accused of many personal flaws, which I try to take into consideration and constantly work on. It hurts my feelings, but I know it's important to help me grow personally. If I do something and get called out on it, I will immediately admit to it and apologize.

But the flip side is that I cannot complain about anything without initiating a cold-shoulder response for a good 40 minutes until I finally manage to drag out something along the lines of, "Well I wouldn't do that if you didn't have XYZ personal fault, Tessar," and then spend another hour asking for forgiveness. Which is sort of okay... I don't appreciate having to spend a good hour apologizing all of the time, but I don't mind apologizing in and of itself. When I make a valid point about a personality flaw, the answer is always an excuse along the lines of, "Well my life is difficult, so is it any surprise?" which I do not find to be an acceptable reason, but I have kept that to myself and tried to show sympathy instead.

In the beginning I was not good about keeping in touch and texting and calling regularly. It was considered my responsibility to make the calls because my schedule was much busier, which was okay... I could understand and live with that.

Staying in contact is something I have tried to work on, and typically now we text throughout the day and get to talk on the phone every night or every other night. But the problem is that now I seem to be the only one doing the initiating. I make ALL of the calls, and if I don't do the texting then it doesn't happen at all till the evening... at which point I am accused of "not caring," and "being distant." I tried gently suggesting that I should not be responsible for doing all of the initiating, but was met with the cold-shoulder and then it was explained to me that my schedule makes me so unavailable that it's just not practical for anyone but me to do the calling.

I am starting to feel like I'm being asked to be something I am not: a mirror. We can't be the same, and in fact I enjoy our differences in personality and taste. But it seems like more and more the demand is that I should find a way to not just enjoy, but to love and get totally engrossed in things that I can only make myself enjoy for the sake of wanting to be near. I am very used to people having little to no interest in the things I love, which is why it does not surprise or bother me if an interest is not taken in the things I do.

Other than these things, I would say the relationship is very healthy... but these are things that only seem to be growing worse over time, and the problem is not being able to address them without getting shut down.

I am not sure what to do. On the one hand a part of me wants to break things off because I feel that many unreasonable demands are being made of me, and also because I feel like this relationship has great potential to cause damage to other relationships... I don't have much, but the free time I do have is usually spent with us together to the exclusion of my other friends. Unfortunately, spending time together but with friends usually leads to complaints that "we never spend time together."

And there is a very specific behavior that makes me very frustrated, but I am not able to properly address as being an issue without becoming a horrible villain... which is blaming everything but yourself for your problems. In my life when something goes wrong I blame myself first and foremost, and that is usually an accurate portrayal. But the increasingly prevailant behavior that I can't stand and leaves me biting my tongue more and more frequently is the habit of blaming EVERYONE but yourself. It's always, "Well someone should have warned me," or "well someone else should've done it," or "how can I be expected to stay on top of these things when I'm so busy?"

Examples include:
-Someone should've told me my major was not marketable after college (it's WELL known)
-Someone should've warned me that if I kept using my credit card I would wind up with major debt (this one blows my mind)
-Someone should invent a system for making sure your bills get paid on time (.... it's called ebilling)
-I should not be blamed for being late for work when I am so busy and the owner is often late (it's called being an employee)

And these are CONSTANT complaints, not occasional complaints. I am afraid bitterness is setting in very severely.

I don't know what to do. I am not sure I can live with someone who cannot accept blame, because without accepting blame and personal responsibility you cannot grow and you will never be able to progress personally or professionally.

[Earniel]

I work with someone like that, or somewhat like that at least. So much so that her older colleagues call her 'our little diva'. She always has to have the final word and it's never her fault if she didn't do something she should have. Which always boggles my mind, why would you not do something your boss tells you to do? She's still young, so I'm hoping she'll learn to take responsability because this attitude is not going to do her much favours in the long run.

I don't think I could live with someone like that. I find communication is very important in relationships. Not being able to talk to someone about problems and faults can eventually put a lot of stress on relationships, especially in difficult times. Resentment and bitterness are going to set it. I see it lately often between my parents. Stressful feels rather inadequate to describe life at home right now. And I can see my dad's frustrated as my mum doesn't want to address some of the problems they're facing or look for solutions together.

[Mari]

I would break up with this person. If it's never his fault, it is implied that it's mine. What right does someone think he has to keep 'pointing out flaws', or in other words: making sure you stay emotionally above the person you're berating?
People don't change unless they want to themselves. He's going to keep on doing this and you can either put your importance below his (and count on having to fight for your self-confidence at some point in the future) or you can choose for yourself now.
I had a boyfriend like this once. I still don't regret choosing myself over him.
Still, you may be bigger-hearted and more certain of yourself than I was and willing to either learn to live with it or wait for him to grow up.

[Rían]

Tessar, break up ... NOW. Those are very unhealthy attitudes, and they will wear you down first emotionally, then physically. Get out now.

You can be polite but firm - something like "I've given this a LOT of thought, and I've made the decision that I need to end the relationship. There have been many good times which I will remember with gratitude, but I feel that the bad parts are so unhealthy and damaging that I must end the relationship."

And don't buy "Tell me what it is and I'll change!" - if this person hasn't changed by your repeated rational appeal by now, it's not going to happen - it's just a manipulation ploy. Just keep repeating "I'm sorry, but I need to end the relationship now." If they go big guns and threaten physical harm to you or to themselves, perhaps even have the name of a counselor ready? but it's another manipulation ploy. Anyway, a relationship is two people, either one of whom has the right to end it.

Some major and healthy and "good boundary" points - a relationship takes two people, and either one has the right to end it. You are not obligated to explain any further than you want to (and I recommend that you don't talk much, because this person sounds like a manipulator.) Be polite but absolutely firm. The attitudes you listed are very unhealthy and damaging and sound like they're getting even worse, and have not changed from rational appeal.

I was in a similar relationship, and I'm convinced that that was what ruined my immune system. I was very strong and athletic and healthy, and then I got into this relationship. The guy was very nice, but he grew up in a home with an alcoholic, hoarding father, and learned unhealthy relationship patterns. Things seemed fine to me, but he was always insisting that we had problems and we had to hash them out for hours and hours, and because I loved him, I went along with it. Then I came down with mono, and it got even worse, and he kept me up for hours and hours, putting me thru emotional wringers, trying to solve "problems". Of course this was the wrong thing to do when you have mono, but I thought since I loved him I couldn't say that I was too weak to work on "problems". The mono got worse, then better a little, then a huge relapse, then a little better, and I ended up with CFIDS and physically damaged for life.

I finally realized that because he was in crisis mode so often growing up, that that was the only status that he felt comfortable in, and if there weren't any real problems, he would make up problems, because he felt compelled to solve them. This person sounds very similar, and Tessar, probably the most loving thing you could do for BOTH of you is to end the relationship. Do NOT be guilted into doing anything else - end it now, before you become a permanent enabler.

*Moothugs* we love ya!

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Tessar

But the flip side is that I cannot complain about anything without initiating a cold-shoulder response for a good 40 minutes until I finally manage to drag out something along the lines of, "Well I wouldn't do that if you didn't have XYZ personal fault, Tessar," and then spend another hour asking for forgiveness. Which is sort of okay... I don't appreciate having to spend a good hour apologizing all of the time, but I don't mind apologizing in and of itself.

Isn't that what is often called "the silent treatment"? It's not healthy.
And there's a difference between apologizing and spending an hour apologizing.

What Rian says, makes sense to me. It may be hard for you, but it seems to be necessary. *moothugs*

[Tessar]

Thanks guys. I really, really appreciate the advice.

I feel like some more soul searching is in order before I make a final decision.

There are many, many positive things that could be said about the relationship. I don't mean to make out like I'm being crushed or emotionally abused. In fact I feel much more content and comfortable with my life now than I ever have before... I don't want to say "happy" because that's such a temporary feeling, but contentment is much more stable and long lasting. I feel like I am very much in love, but at the same time I am deeply disturbed by the behavioral trends I'm seeing. On the one hand, I think I could imagine this relationship lasting the rest of my life... but I don't want to end up giving my life to version 2.0 of my dad. A lot of these behavour traits were not evident AT ALL for the first few months but have been very obvious since then, and they are ALL the things my dad does. I love my dad, but I can't even imagine trying to live with that 24/7 the rest of my life.



I do have a major concern. There does seem to be some sort of tendency towards depression, and I'm afraid that cutting things off would cause an enormous depression... given how precarious the job situation is at the moment (because of tardiness and such) I'm afraid that at least one job might be lost if my breaking up causes that depression to rise. Because when you're depressed you really don't care about anything.

But at the same time I do feel like that's not my problem AT ALL. I'm rational enough to know that. But I don't want to hurt someone, especially if I'm not 100% certain I'm making the decisions for the right reasons. Never someone so sweet, either. Despite the very disturbing attitude problems, I'm not sure I've met anyone else quite as kind in their own way. There is a genuine care for me there... maybe the issue is being just as disturbed with MY issues as I am with the ones I'm seeing?


I am afraid of doing something terrible to someone else for selfish reasons.

What if I'm just unable to commit? My dad has always accused me of being a quitter, and I worry it's true.
What if I think I'm being so practical, but really I'm just too childish to put up with things that annoy me?


And, to be fair, this is the first REALLY nice person to take a genuine interest in me. Everyone who has ever hit on me before ends up being some shallow girl who wants to unload her problems on me, or some guy cruising me, or some major loser of EITHER gender who can't get their life together and (for some reason...) seems to think they feel some deep connection with me. I am not trying to be dramatic (I pinky swear ) but I think this last year is the first time in my life I have felt genuinely cared about.

I don't want to say I'm afraid there isn't anything better out there for me, but at the same time I'm definitely afraid this is as good as it gets and I'm snubbing it and being picky.

[Rían]

It's hard, I know!!!!

It's just that it isn't good for anyone if the people involved aren't basically healthy (no one is perfect, but there's healthy and unhealthy emotionally), and there are some very, very big unhealthy signs that you listed, mainly everything is someone else's fault and the isolation bit.

This SO fits the pattern of an unhealthy relationship, with you as the enabler - that's why I guessed before you mentioned it that there might be depression involved, and that's why I suggested having the name of a counselor ready. Relationships have to be healthy, or it will damage both people. And unhealthy doesn't mean the person is a monster, either - often, it's quite the contrary. And it makes it harder to give it up when you feel genuinely cared for.

I still think it's healthiest for both to break it off, with the name (and perhaps an appointment) of a counselor ready, but it's your decision, of course. But those two points (nothing is their fault, and a tendency towards isolation) are really, really indicative of some very unhealthy, damaging attitudes. Another option might be to firmly break off the closer relationship part for a set period of time, with the condition being you will stay in touch as friends only if they get steady counseling. Something like "I've given this a lot of thought, and I care about you a lot, but I see some things in you that have to get worked on before we can have a truly healthy relationship. It's that the way you talk, things are never your fault, like (give a few examples). THis just isn't healthy or right, and I want what's best for both of us, so I've decided that I need to pull back until we can agree on some basic things. I have the name of a counselor here, and if you want me to keep in touch with you, you'll need to have regular meetings, and I'll consider getting together again when the counselor feels that things are healthy enough."

And maybe you meet with the counselor first - that's probably the best idea, come to think of it. Make sure you like him/her, and get suggestions on how to phrase the talk and make the terms. And you might have some things that you could be helped with, too - you've been thru some hard times with your dad's job and all.

My husband and I are going thru counseling now, and it's been very helpful. After 20 great years, we moved to Arizona, and sure enough, things got pretty bad (most of his birth family is here, and there are some major issues we knew existed, and some even bigger ones that we didn't know existed and found out about, and then all the crazy health issues like 5 surgeries in 4 years, plus having a handicapped child, etc.). My husband just started with some real anger issues and the denial bit - it was just too painful. I supported it for 5 years, hoping it would get better, but finally put my foot down and he agreed to go to counseling. Things are slowly getting better (I wish I had gone sooner, but you just keep hoping things will get better) but we need some work still. One of the best tools has been when my husband says something hurtful, I respond with "When you do abc, it makes me feel xyz, and I need you to do 123". Repeat as needed, and hold your ground. Leave if it goes nowhere after about 3 repetitions, but don't argue.

Anyway, Moothugs again, and I'll pray for you and the whole situation. Please feel free to ignore everything I've said or use any part of it - I'm just trying to give you input to work with to make your own decision.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Tessar

:
:

What if I'm just unable to commit? My dad has always accused me of being a quitter, and I worry it's true.
What if I think I'm being so practical, but really I'm just too childish to put up with things that annoy me?

:
:

TOO common for parents to say things like that to their young adult children.

All too common for parents to forget that they may have seemed this way to their own folks at the same age.

Don't worry about those kinds of things, and don't scrutinize yourself to the point of such great self-doubt.

Let us know what you decide and how it works out.

[Tessar]

Thanks guys, I really, truly appreciate the advice.

I am not going to make a final decision right now. I want to be sure I am doing the right thing. I think I am going to wait till the end of the summer to make any final decisions. Next week starts finals, and almost right after I'm back in summer school and I'll be trying to keep working my hours at my job(s). This is not a good moment to make an important emotional decision, and I suspect any time during the summer will not be a good moment either.

Also I'm an enormous chicken and I'm too scared to do it right now, which I'm pretty sure is all anyone (including myself) can think when they read my paragraph above. So... cluck-cluck?

I think the next time it happens is the last opportunity I will offer for us to have an argument or for me to do something wrong without the cold shoulder treatment. Typically I will wait it out and keep asking for forgiveness, but next time I will leave and go home. Then we'll move from there... either that will help make it clear I'm not willing to keep putting up with that treatment and we'll find a way to fix things, or I will use that as a segue into explaining that I feel I'm not "Mr. Right," and that I think someone who is a better fit needs to take my place.

I wonder if the age gap could be a factor as well. I don't feel like it's a huge gap, but it's 23 vs. 27. Actually at first I thought we were only a year apart, or maybe the same age, because I just made that assumption based off of physical appearance. Sometimes when I'm being accused of acting certain ways I can't help but think, "If I were 27, maybe I would've already worked that out. Give me some time to actually work on myself, the same way you've had that time." But the truth is I am starting to think there is not an actual maturity gap, it's all in our opposing outlooks on life. "I will find a way to make this bad situation work for me," vs. "this sucks and someone else is to blame."

[Mari]

I think in your twenties age doesn't really matter. Some people are mature already, others are not and that mostly depends on their circumstances and experiences rather than age. For example, I left home at 18. Of course I'm going to be more independent than someone who's still living with their parents.

Anyways, Rian gave good advice in my opinion and I think you should really try to walk away without 'grovelling' as you suggested above. If it turns out your partner can't handle that and refuses to accept anything other than continued apologies from your part I don't think he's right for you at this moment. He may be as sweet and caring as can be, but if he makes you apologise over and over again, I don't think that's very sweet and caring for you, but more like making/proving you care about him.

[Jonathan]

Phew, what a day.

Someone tries to issue credit cards in my name. Two failed attempts so far this week.
And someone accidently took my bag on the ferry, leaving me travelling bag-less in the middle of the night.

And I'll be working all weekend. On my vacation. Without my bag. And I had to leave a big party with unlimited amounts of booze really early because of said work. Which is in another city. I'm waiting for the night bus. I'll be dead-tired at work tomorrow...

*Sigh* I want my bag and identity back.

[Mari]

Oh, that's scary! I hope it can get sorted soon...

[Earniel]

Sorry to hear you've had such a bad week, Jonathan. Every single one of those events already suck, but having to experience them all three in a course of a few days must be aweful.

[Jonathan]

Thanks, you two
Didn't end up so badly after all. The bag's in mum's custody now. I don't really need it, I've got spare clothes here.

And I think I've got the credit card scam under control. I've also set a small trap in my letterbox, to see if anyone's trying to steal any credit card pin codes that might come

And working all weekend worked out fine!

[Rían]

Yeah, that credit card stuff is really irritating! We usually get new cards a couple of times a year because of fraud.

Glad the work went well - are you focusing on any particular area right now?

[Jonathan]

Fraud = irritating indeed!

Right now focusing on my very last exam. Then it's a few months before I can start specializing. Still not sure which area yet, though.

Edit: The frauder took the bait I've got proof that someone's stealing my mail! Not that it'll do them any good now that I know about it and have my mail forwarded elsewhere anyway...

[Earniel]

Clever to set a trap! Is stealing mail a criminal offense in Sweden? Might be useful to alert the police if so. Well, credit fraud will be in any case, so maybe if the police can catch this person stealing your mail, they can prevent further fraud too. You're probably not the only one losing mail.

EDIT: At first I thought you maybe had set up a mouse trap in your letterbox, but I assume it was a fake letter?

[Jonathan]

Stealing and opening other people's mail is surely a criminal offence. Yep, I planted a fake letter in my box, that had the look of containing confidential info. No mousetrap, maybe later

Yeah, I already contacted the police when I first discovered the attempted credit card scam. Of course they're not likely to send anyone to survey my letterbox :P But I might plant another fake letter and keep some watch myself tomorrow. If the culprit is stupid enough to return (hopefully in a car with a licence plate!), then I have them