01-11-2004, 04:20 PM | #861 |
Quasi Evil
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Do please enlighten us if creationism isnt about creating things from nothing.
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01-11-2004, 04:29 PM | #862 |
Elf Lord
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If people began understand that Creationalism and Evolution worked together then there wouldn't be any conflict.
It says in the bible: "A thousand years is like a day to the lord". Well, that was as long they could think in those times. What if one of the lord's days actually was One Hundred Thousand Years or A Million Years. Then C and E could have happened at the same time. I E, no conflict. |
01-11-2004, 04:33 PM | #863 |
Quasi Evil
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But creationists do not allow for evolutionary mechanics to work at all. If they work at all then they can directly oppose creationist thinking so it is considered a threat and must be approached as one. I agree with you that theres no reason to exlude evolution in a god centered universe. Evolution could be a tool of the christian god. why not? Ive never really understood why some are so resistant to this kind of thinking. I can only assume it threatens the fundamentals of their beliefs too much to be allowed because it states that god created man in his image. Not by natural means.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
01-11-2004, 04:39 PM | #864 | |
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01-11-2004, 11:41 PM | #865 |
Elven Warrior
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As much as I am enjoying this debate, I'm afraid that between school and three jobs to pay for it, I can't handle this... It's far too time-consuming.
So with great dismay, I fear I must withdraw from the debate. If, however, you would like to continue this on a one-on-one level, I would very much enjoy that. You can e-mail me: high_iq_grrl@yahoo.com So, good luck guys.... I do love a good debate.
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01-12-2004, 01:08 AM | #866 | |||
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Sorry to see you go Nariel, but if you're too busy I understand. Er... not that you'll see this message now.
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01-12-2004, 02:10 PM | #867 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I just dropped by to say a temporary goodbye (I'll be out for a bit because of having to have some surgery) and I just saw this - how in the WORLD am I not debating fairly?!?! Please be specific if you're going to make such a terrible claim, because I intend to fight it - if there's one thing that I despise, it's being unfair and deceitful, and I've NEVER intentionally done this here!!! And Nurvi - I'm NOT looking at this issue from "inside a Christian perspective"!! I'm looking at it impartially, on the evidence! If I thought the evidence supported evolutionism more than creationism, then I would believe that evolution happened!! But I don't think the evidence sides with evolutionism. I HATE false accusations and I'm tired of trying to fight false claims like IRex's "But creationists do not allow for evolutionary mechanics to work at all. If they work at all then they can directly oppose creationist thinking so it is considered a threat and must be approached as one. " That's silly and untrue, at least in my case. I am interested in TRUTH. I say over and over that I look at the evidence, at what actually is observed, and I STILL get statements like this thrown at me. I think that evolutionists are MUCH more biased, and have MUCH stronger preconceived notions than creationists. ANY theory has to have some basic ideas behind it, then one makes predictions based on the ideas, and you see how OBSERVABLE evidence fits in. And to me, on the evidence that I see, evolutionists are the ones that hang onto the unproven parts of their theory with MUCH more "faith" than creationists! I have to go get ready for surgery tomorrow - all I would ask you guys to do is to look at the EVIDENCE, and discern between what is OBSERVED and what is only a GUESS.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-12-2004, 02:32 PM | #868 | |
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Now, DON’T you answer this till you have yourself all taken care of HEALTH wise thank you. THEN we can fuss some more.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Last edited by Insidious Rex : 01-12-2004 at 02:34 PM. |
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01-12-2004, 02:34 PM | #869 | |||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Analogies like yours (and I use them a lot, too) are useful for EXPLAINING an idea, but not PROVING one. Your analogy would have been useful to me if I had said "IRex, I don't understand how you think that our relative size has anything to do with not understanding things." Then you would have said your analogy, and that would have helped me to understand your point. Then, understanding it, I could decide if I thought it was true. However, I already understand your point, but disagree with you that it is true. To me, it makes much more sense that a God that could create a universe would have enough smarts and enough power to create people with a capacity to understand Him in some meaningful way. Do you see what I mean about your analogy? Analogies, IMO, explain, but after you understand something, then you need to analyze it and decide if you think it's true. (and you didn't have to be so snarky about it ) And I DON"T default to "“that’s outside Christian thinking therefore is wrong” mentality" - I think about things, and as I pointed out, I assumed your POV was right when I was analyzing it. You NEVER assumed that my POV was right in order to analyze it, as far as I could tell. Quote:
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Do you claim that a creator force is ENTIRELY beyond ANY meaningful comprehension for people? (I just want to get this straight, and not put words into your mouth). Quote:
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Your "third much more plausible and more obvious deduction" was NEVER based on assuming that my POV was true and then thinking about it - it was only a REPEAT of YOUR beliefs. Quote:
And again, I'll grant YOU the courtesy of saying that I think you think about things impartially and carefully when you reach conclusions. I TELL you that I think about things impartially and carefully when I reach conclusions. Will you believe me, or will you think that anyone that doesn't agree with you is a person that refuses to think? I'm not that unfair, are you? We both have stuck with our conclusions, because we both think they make sense.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-12-2004, 02:45 PM | #870 | |||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-12-2004, 02:50 PM | #871 |
Quasi Evil
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I think what we need to do is take this from a different approach. I guess what i dont understand is why you seem to think creationism is much more plausable then a scientific theory like evolution based on all your "careful thinking". so maybe if you wouldnt mind what you could do to make that point would be to list out reasons WHY creationism is the correct theory. And say NOTHING about evolution. Because its standard practice for creationists to attempt to prove creationism by attacking evolution thereby concluding with a sort of "well since evolution doesnt make sense then creationism MUST be how it all works." Which of course is a disingenious and falty way of coming to a proof. So maybe what I need is reasons WHY creationism works. And lets just forget about evolution for a while.
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01-12-2004, 03:51 PM | #872 | |||
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Good luck on your surgery, and I hope you have a speedy recovery! (And not just so I can keep discussion Creationism either. ) Hey guys, let R*an go have surgery already. You know she will respond if you post on her comments.
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01-12-2004, 04:05 PM | #873 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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*sits on her fingers*
*gives up* IRex, that one will have to wait until post-op But I still hope you don't think I'm deceitful Thanks Nurvi and everyone else for the good wishes!!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
01-12-2004, 04:09 PM | #874 |
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Good luck, R*an!
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01-12-2004, 04:13 PM | #875 |
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Take a break Rian! I sent you a PM explaining myself. Get well soon.
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01-12-2004, 04:46 PM | #876 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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OK
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
01-12-2004, 07:47 PM | #877 |
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It's good to see this thread going again. Though I don't see the debate being settled anytime soon.
I don't have much to contribute, but I still believe the evidence points to evolution over creation, from an impartial perspective. Good luck, R*an!
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01-12-2004, 07:58 PM | #878 | |||
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Edit: Forgot the toothy-grin smilie.
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01-12-2004, 08:55 PM | #879 |
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Creationism: My views/ reviews of articles from Honors Biology (last year). I don't quite remember everything I wrote! If you ask me a question, I will try to answer it/defend myself, etc.
Go to :http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=theMercutio The file was too big for an extension. Mercutio
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02-23-2004, 02:26 PM | #880 | ||
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Thanks Mercutio.
What do Creationist theories say about hybrids? God did not create mules (not directly anyway), humans did by crossing donkeys and horses. However, they cannot reproduce, and this applies to all animal hybrids as far as we know. In the plant world, there are many fertile hybrids. This occurs when the cell wall does not form during meiosis, creating cells with four sets of chromasones. They then have the chance to align properly, and can reproduce. A chemical can be applied to a hybrid to ensure the cell was doesn't form. It's used a lot in horticulture and agriculture. Hybrids lead to evolution in plants, and we've actually seen the progress. (It's more concrete than the dinosaur theory.)
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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