04-10-2003, 11:43 PM | #841 | |
The Buddy Rabbit
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Trapped in the headlights..
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Quote:
When do ya think the US will pay up? |
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04-11-2003, 12:05 AM | #842 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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So - if you want us to pay - then I suggest you guys pay for the cold war and the rebuilding of Europe after WWII. Not to mention you can pay us for our military action during World War II and World War I. I can guarantee the few times we have asked for your help - will be a drop in the bucket - but when you get our bill - it'll most likely bankrupt your country. You may have to actually cut back on some of those social programs you've been able to enjoy by sitting back and relying on OUR military.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 04-11-2003 at 12:12 AM. |
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04-11-2003, 01:02 AM | #843 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Queen's
Posts: 1,245
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But...U.S military dominance is good for the U.S. It's good for Europe too (in fact it's pretty good for eveyone because U.S self-interest is probably the nicest we've ever seen), but if the U.S did not have a large military it would be less powerful.
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"Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom" |
04-11-2003, 01:22 AM | #844 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
We can still be powerful even without being militarily powerful though. We are the most powerful country economically too. The dollar is the world's currency. The best way of preventing war is not through military might - but through free markets and trade. When countries' trade and well being are linked - they are not going to wage war on each other. Trade between Russia and the US will help keep us as allies - whereas before there was no trade. Canada and the US enjoy the largest "undefended" border in the world. The US can go into Canada if we wanted to and take over the country - but that isn't going to happen (which is sort of ironic with the number of comments from people saying that the US is imperialist and wants to take over the world). We live in peace mostly through our trade. As I've said many times - I don't even need a passport to go to Canada nor even Mexico - unlike Europeans traveling through Europe. Europe is starting to change - but it has been slow. Free trade between countries makes war VERY expensive and not worth it. I should note too that NATO was called on only ONCE to directly defend America in the history of the alliance and that was after 9/11. The only reason why was because our planes were busy hunting down Osama Bin Ladin in Afganistan and for those few month - NATO planes flew over New Jersey and New York. The United States was actually founded on the principal of not joining into alliances and only having a military for defense and to only build it up when attacked. That principal went out the window after we got dragged into World War II and realised that we had to take the upper hand or else Europe would be continuously in war. After World War II - we stopped destroying our war equipment and sinking it into the sea, like we did after World War I. This time we decided to step onto the world stage and take the lead.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 04-11-2003 at 01:40 AM. |
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04-11-2003, 01:53 AM | #845 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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Oh, don't mind me. *sneaks off with JD's pants*
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
04-11-2003, 02:08 AM | #846 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
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-points at BoP-
Look at that! She stole JD's pants! Solid proof that she's anti-American! If that isn't, then I don't know what is! And just for good measure:
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 04-11-2003 at 02:10 AM. |
04-11-2003, 02:14 AM | #847 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 04-11-2003 at 02:20 AM. |
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04-11-2003, 02:28 AM | #848 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
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And just for that, I'm taking your underpants too.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
04-11-2003, 02:32 AM | #849 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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04-11-2003, 02:34 AM | #850 |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
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Hey whaddayaknow? They've got little American Flags all over 'em.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
04-11-2003, 02:52 AM | #851 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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04-11-2003, 03:05 AM | #852 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
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Quote:
Eastern Front 1943 Meanwhile the Italian campain, mostly against Mussolini's forces at first, didn't begin until six months after Stalingrad. Southern Front 1943 Meanwhile US forces were just getting into the fray in North Africa while Stalingrad was raging. The US's main concern was the Pacific theater of operations in the early years of its involvement in the war for obvious reasons. The effects of cutting off the Reich's oil and the bombing raids certainly helped the Russian cause in the middle of the war and the western front later on, but the heavy lifting on the eastern front was no small feat. Check the deployment of German mechanised units and other fun facts here: More OT stuff Why do you think Sgt. Schultz was so afraid of the Russian Front? Edit:*still has pants-sigh*
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary Last edited by Cirdan : 04-11-2003 at 03:21 AM. |
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04-11-2003, 06:02 AM | #853 |
im quite stupid
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cockermouth
Posts: 2,058
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JD you do amuse me greatly ! But what the hell are you on about? Paid our debts to you indeed you diod helps us out but you owe a lot of americas succes to europes misfortune. The industrial backbone of britian was destroyed in the second world war completally we had to go back to the start. Whole towns absoultally decimated america never had this. Same all over europe! as for your comments about russia not been able to win the war themselves thats rubbish i have little doubt that russia would of destroyed germany you obvosly do not fully understand the sheer numbers of troops and tanks they had even before we launced our attrack they had hittler on the run we owe the russians so very much and i think its sad they are majorly over looked they didnt need us to win the war but we sure as hell needed them.
As for the american contribution to the world wars you entred them both late your landing on D day sank into the sea so there was infact minimal us forces in the innitial assult. Ive been to the landing site ive seen a video on it im informed ! i dont want this becomming an anti american thread because i bear you no ill will infact all the best you gave us basketball (big thanks) but forgive us if we sometimes question your methods. How america is been viewed at the moment (and this is pretty fair assement) is like the police force that answers to no one it is not your right to go into countries and say we are gonna take you out no country has that right the UN (even give all its faults) is the body that has to do that. You are playing a dangerous game and i hope for the worlds sake you realise that soon otherwise you wont be having another vietnam you will be having another world war
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Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot |
04-11-2003, 06:35 AM | #854 | |
The Buddy Rabbit
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Trapped in the headlights..
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Quote:
Britain didn't rely on America during the cold war, we have been a nuclear power for the last 50 yrs, even the Russians weren't crazy enough to start the nuclear holocaust. But hey! thanks for the help anyway, thanks to the "help" America provided during the cold war we have public services, welfare and social programs that are amongst the best in the world! Maybe the American army should now be used on a Mercenary basis........? Might save ya some cash |
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04-11-2003, 07:22 AM | #855 | |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
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I would like to say something, if no one minds...
What's the point of arguing about the Second World War? Surely the great thing about it was that allies fought together, side by side. I know people of my grandparents' generation who have an undying respect for America based entirely on the fact that they fought together in WW2 (I know you didn't notice the Brits were in the war, but we did! As Sween pointed out, a lot of British towns were seriously damaged by bombing) So does it really matter who technically defeated the Germans/Japanese? We are grateful, you know. We haven't forgotten. But it doesn't mean we have to agree with America for the next century because they helped us in the war(s). Quote:
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. Last edited by sun-star : 04-11-2003 at 09:30 AM. |
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04-11-2003, 09:06 AM | #856 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Durham, England
Posts: 694
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Quote:
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I'm beset by self-doubt ....or am I? |
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04-11-2003, 09:42 AM | #857 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
Posts: 5,340
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Why is Turkey upset over the Kurds moving into Kirkuk? What's up with Turkey?
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
04-11-2003, 10:08 AM | #858 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
As for World War II - my point about that was only that many thousands of Americans lost their lives in Europe in TWO world wars. Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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04-11-2003, 10:24 AM | #859 |
im quite stupid
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cockermouth
Posts: 2,058
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i would like to point out that britian has a very very small standing army we dont go in for vast batallions of men i think the armys infantarty is only 100,000 so 40,000 troops represents a very large force from us
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Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot |
04-11-2003, 10:31 AM | #860 | ||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
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America landed on the most fortified of the beaches. America was also fighting TWO empires and a two front war. Quote:
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Is this playing with fire? Of course it is. But we can continue sit back and do nothing - and it's not going to stop terrorism. The Middle East uses propaganda to turn their people against the west. These countries have 25+% unemployment - not because of the US - but because of their own countries. Instead of accepting their own problems though - they point the finger. The Midde East need a scapegoat for the problems of their people so they don't take out their frustrations on their own countries. Hussien needed to be stopped - along time ago. I think this is clearly demonstrated by the way the people of Iraq are reacted by his downfall. Even without the possibility of him habing WMD - I think that for humaitarian reasons going into Iraq was the right thing to do. I was upset that we hadn't finished the job the first time. The world community held us back then though. The world community as well as Americans were also outraged by us bombing suspected hide outs of Osama Bin ladin too - and that ended up giving us 9/11. We're not going to risk not looking after our self interests again - just because the world doesn't think the time isn't right. If we feel their is a clear danger to this country - we will protect it. Right now it is very clear that danger is coming from the Middle East.
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 04-11-2003 at 10:40 AM. |
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