Gays, lesbians, bisexuals, PART II

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

It's so different for woman, though. If you're a guy, and there's a picture of you on myspace with your tongue in a guy's ear, you'd better be prepared to have people think you're gay. If you're a woman, though... half (or more) of the gals doing that are only trying to look hot to MEN.

Sexual activity doesn't define you. And people make choices all the time about sex that have nothing to do with "desire," and even less than that to do with love. They have sex to create closeness. They have it as a gift. They have it as sweaty exercise. People engage in behavior that society defines as sexual without sorting out their motivations at all. Then they sober up, or take a shower, and spend some fruitless hours, or days, or years, trying to select a label that explains sexually what isn't really sexual at all.

I don't think the labels are really helpful, after a point. Anne Frank isn't remembered as a "great lesbian heroine" because her story edited some fantasies that might have gotten her typed there, but more importantly, because the central themes of her narrative aren't really related to her sex life. When we talk about "gay" or "straight" in someone's life (even our own) we've already decided to prioritize something as a characteristic that may be no more essentially about who we are than 'knobby-kneed' . I'm really convinced that that winds up to be a negative thing.

The only polite and appropriate question about sexual preference (IMO) is "Does yours include me?" If the answer is "no", what difference does it matter whether that's because you don't, on the whole, fancy my gender, or because you like people who are shorter?

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

You don't choose your sexual identity, it is something you're born with.

My point is that you don't choose your environment and upbringing either, so the distinction is unnecessary. Whether it is genetic, environmental, or a mix of both, there is no "choice" in the matter.

A gay person couldn't all the sudden decide to be straight anymore than Inked could suddenly decide to become a raging liberal.

[Butterbeer]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

... anymore than Inked could suddenly decide to become a ... raging liberal.

Quite untrue, thou wart-nippled -rpg avoiding skunk niggard thou! ...

he is halfway there already ... whether t'is nobler to choose the 'raging' rather than the 'liberal' ... i leave up to discussion ...

p.s. BJ - lost any leaves??? (...check ya pockets!)

Best BB

[brownjenkins]

Hence, horrible villain, or I'll spurn thine eyes like balls before me! I'll unhair thy head! Thou shalt be whipp'd with wire, and stew'd'in brine, smarting in lingering pickle!

And your little dog too!!

[BeardofPants]

I need to get my eyes checked - I thought I read "lingerie pickle". o.O

[inked]

O, the smarmy science continues! See what happens when Al Gore gets a Peace Prize (Nobel) for propaganda.

MORE LIKE...when (AL) becomes a raging (scientist).

Seriously, I could become a raging liberal if I chose to do so. It would simply require abandonment of morals, standards, and empirical science properly exercised.

There is no conservative gene or liberal gene.

There might be, however, "pickled lingerie". I have seen edible undies in various shops (or shoppes, if you prefer, there being no gene for spelling). But as the redneck Larry the Cable Guy observed, "They don't make 'em in biscuit and gravy!"

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Ah, life is all about the humanizing detail.

Nice to see you can find the good, shop(pe)s, inked.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by inked

Seriously, I could become a raging liberal if I chose to do so.

Impossible! Though you might be able to fake one for a while.

We can't change our base points of view any more than we can change the color of our skin.

[inked]

Well, BJ, you are degenerating more and more into a rank materialist and further into a mere determinist. You obviously do not believe what you say or you would not be arguing for you point of view. If persons do NOT have the capability of changing their view or behavior because of the sheer deterministic milieu in which they are fated to fall, why argue for your belief system?

I, on the other hand, do believe that such change is indeed possible because of the human will and GRACE. In the first case, participating in reason which clearly underlies the universe, persons can come upon facts and arguments that alter their behavior and even their belief system. In the second case, those whose reason is not merely determined by their milieu can rise above that entrainment and oppose mere determinism by the dynamic of their cooperation with the Reason which made the universe and all that is. Therefore they can change. In the first case we can posit abolitionists. In the second case, Paul of Tarsus, inked, and whole hosts of persons throughout history and the current world.

So, I "see" your materialistic determinism and raise you the human spirit and Spirit in humans. Boromir, my good sir, Boromir. Or Saruman in the opposite.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by inked

If persons do NOT have the capability of changing their view or behavior because of the sheer deterministic milieu in which they are fated to fall, why argue for your belief system?

I didn't say that people can't change their view or behavior. I said that, much like genetics, it is something they have little, or maybe even no control over.

Let's say you love the taste of ice cream. You can choose not to eat it, but you can't choose to stop loving the taste of it. And, in fact, you probably would not choose to stop eating it unless some outside influence (i.e. someone commenting on your weight or health) convinced you to.

Originally Posted by inked

In the first case, participating in reason which clearly underlies the universe, persons can come upon facts and arguments that alter their behavior and even their belief system.

As I said, outside influence precipitating change.

Originally Posted by inked

In the second case, those whose reason is not merely determined by their milieu can rise above that entrainment and oppose mere determinism by the dynamic of their cooperation with the Reason which made the universe and all that is.

A romantic notion, if little more.

[inked]

BJ, you are the ROMANTIC IDEALIST, in love with your demonstrably falsifiable view of the perfection of humanity and man as the sole measure of man, and you have the audacity of accusing anyone else, but particularly me!, of being romantic! Egads, you are worse off than I thought! Perhaps beyond remediation!

[Rían]

Originally Posted by inked

There might be, however, "pickled lingerie". I have seen edible undies in various shops (or shoppes, if you prefer, there being no gene for spelling). But as the redneck Larry the Cable Guy observed, "They don't make 'em in biscuit and gravy!"

I had to do some quick explaining when my kids found mine ...

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I had to do some quick explaining when my kids found mine ...

...


o.O

[inked]

Hey, this is really quite frightening, ya'll.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2859606.ece

I may not support gay marriage, but no way I think this is the right way to run a country. And these guys want nuclear weapons, too.

[Insidious Rex]

But I thought there were no gays in Iran...

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

But I thought there were no gays in Iran...

Sounds like he's working on it.

[Mari]

Yeah. Some people try real hard to deny the reality of the existence homosexuality etc. and not just in Iran. I think that maybe in Indonesia or those parts they also have those hard rules. People are not even allowed to masturbate, so being gay is probably an even bigger no-no...

[Nurvingiel]

Ah yes. The infamous quote from President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: In Iran, we don't have homosexuals like in your country. (Laughter.) We don't have that in our country. (Booing.) In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who's told you that we have it. (Laughter.)

This is from a transcript of the President's speech at Columbia University.


Also, there are no rats in Alberta.

Edit: I am not comparing gay people to rats. I am comparing two statements that flatly deny the existance of something that is extremely likely to exist. Just to be clear.

[Earniel]

Somehow I find it a little reassuring that the public laughed at such an ignorant statement.

So if you don't have them in Iran, then why exactly are you hanging these people? Riiiiight. Another idiot in denial.

[The last sane person]

Yeah, its rather sad, the people are fine with it, its just the government is an assbackwards dictatorship...