06-28-2008, 02:15 AM | #821 |
Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001
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It makes sense though considering that the main debaters of the thread who are arguing from a religious standpoint are Christian. In this case it's more because of who's doing the arguing than any sweeping generalization about Christianity .
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06-28-2008, 02:24 AM | #822 |
Elven Warrior
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I just find it interesting that most of the 41 pages of this thread concern Christianity, as if it is the only religion on the planet. [/QUOTE]
technicality Im not talking about a religion when i say Christian im talking about a real relationship with my Dad you loves me more then I can understand...He loves you two bro!... cool part is if you accept it or not He loves you all the same...maybe thats why all you see is christains in here Dads trying to tell you something lol.
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06-28-2008, 02:39 AM | #823 | |||
The Ñoldóran
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Second - The Christian God is not my 'dad'. My dad is the one who raised me from birth and has been there for me through thick and thin. I do not see a Christian God in this manner at all. I do not even see 'God' as being male, but if God exists at all I see it rather as being androgynous. Third - If the Christian God is trying to tell me something, perhaps s/he should have told me sometime during the fifteen years I was searching for my place, praying every night for guidance and getting nothing in return. And as for loving me all the same, s/he sure has a very strange way of showing it. Fourth - I think the reasons I see only Christians here is more along the lines of what Tessar said...
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06-28-2008, 02:54 AM | #824 |
Elf Lord
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I think that's a reflection of the beliefs in Entmoot's population. We also have a lot of agnostics and atheists posting on the religion forums. Those are the interested people who are here, so that's where the conversation is. If we had a lot of Buddhists or Muslims here, we'd probably be discussing those religions a lot more on these threads.
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06-28-2008, 03:01 AM | #825 |
Elven Warrior
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opps my bad..sorry for thinking you were a guy.
but if you want to get real deep no God is not a guy, nor a woman, the Bible refers to God as He, but to this I have no answer (new at theology). "Third - If the Christian God is trying to tell me something, perhaps s/he should have told me sometime during the fifteen years I was searching for my place, praying every night for guidance and getting nothing in return. And as for loving me all the same, s/he sure has a very strange way of showing it." I don;t agree with you on God having a weird way of showing love to us. We were meant to die, but Jesus left His thrown to die in our place, to become poor when he was rich. You prayed for 15 years and got nothing. This my come out wrong so sorry in advance lol. When you prayed were you believing God would help you or did you believe nothing would happen. I for sure 100% that if you pray and believe with all of your heart God answers, but if you don't believe he will help, you'll just get what you believe you will get. not sure if that makes sense. ok example: i was running my 3 miles one day and was bout 2 miles from my house, it started to rain...hard. I was all "this sucks" so I kinda made this prayer saying "God stop the rain"...nothing happen. So i was 1 mile and a half from my house and then I was like"o i know what Hes doing" so i said "God, please stop the rain" it got softer and stopped..sun came out. ok this may sound retard but i had a reason for saying it. A week before I asked God if he had a sense of humor and that was his little joke on me. I thought it was funny. besides that I don't know what to say.
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06-28-2008, 03:08 AM | #826 | |
The Ñoldóran
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As for Jesus...I respect Jesus as a historical person and a social reformer, but I don't buy the 'died for our sins' stuff, sorry.
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06-28-2008, 03:13 AM | #827 | |
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You know, unfortunately that kind of story isn't going to fly very far with the Non-Christians here because they'll say it's coincidence. One of the things that makes it easier for Christians to believe it is that we have that kind of thing happen so very often in answer to our prayers. Prayers fly and answers return. In just that way. Also the experience with God is so intimate, powerful and personal. Non-Christians haven't experienced that, most of the time, and instead the religion has always felt like a hollow set of beliefs and formulas, without any spiritual reality.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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06-28-2008, 03:20 AM | #828 | |
The Ñoldóran
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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06-28-2008, 03:23 AM | #829 | |||
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Those were his claims about what he was doing, according to the Gospel accounts. Which are reliable because . . . . Maybe I'll save that one for tomorrow .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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06-28-2008, 03:26 AM | #830 | |
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I was saying that people who leave Christianity or are not part of it often have felt that Christianity "always felt like a hollow set of beliefs and formulas, without any spiritual reality."
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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06-28-2008, 03:29 AM | #831 |
Elven Warrior
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well heres my sort of proof. Romans were experts at killing people. They could kill 6000 people in one day by execution. So they would have made sure He was dead or they would lose their own life. Next when Jesus returned to life over 500 people saw Him.a lot of these people were killed for saying jesus died and rose again. I don't think someone would die for what they know to be a lie, so they had to be right, or crazy (if the second one then lots of crazy people lol) and in court for example, it only takes three witnesses to prove a man guilty or not. so 500!
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06-28-2008, 03:36 AM | #832 |
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Azrael, do you own The Case for Christ, by Lee Strobel, by any chance?
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
06-28-2008, 03:38 AM | #833 | |||
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian Last edited by Curufin : 06-28-2008 at 03:40 AM. |
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06-28-2008, 03:41 AM | #834 |
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Historical? Person? That's more than I'd attribute to a figure I see as mythical, and a composite of 'myths' prevalent for the time.
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06-28-2008, 03:42 AM | #835 |
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Azrael - I wasn't really talking about the physical reality (or unreality) of the resurrection - my comment was more that I don't believe that's what Jesus was all about.
I don't believe in the resurrection, but that's not what I was speaking of.
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06-28-2008, 03:44 AM | #836 |
The Ñoldóran
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My dad's in the process of writing a book on the Historical Jesus - while a lot of the preconceptions are wrong, I don't think he was just a myth - I think he did exist, just not in the ways that most people think of him today.
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06-28-2008, 04:00 AM | #837 |
the Shrike
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Fair enough. Personally, I find it troubling that there's no direct evidence (archaeological, etc) that he ever existed, and yet, so many people think he's some god figure. It's not a coincidence that there're so many other creation myths rather similar to the jesus-rising-from-the-dead one, and well... there's not much in a way of direct evidence that he ever actually existed.
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06-28-2008, 04:05 AM | #838 |
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You'd have to talk to my dad about that one - it's certainly not my area of expertise. But I agree with you on most of that, although I do think he existed - just as a normal human being who happened to have some good ideas.
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06-28-2008, 06:51 AM | #839 |
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Hehe, I like reading this discussion.
Azrael, I don't know what your denomination is, but this website is an English Baptist one. They offer an explanation of a section of the Bible everyday with a contemplative session to accompany it. http://www.scriptureunion.org.uk/23835.id?redirect=true This is today's session: http://www.scriptureunion.org.uk/2981.id Should you decide to read it, read it while thinking. They have some rather good or interesting points and I learned a lot, but you don't have to agree with everything. I think they use the King James translation of the Bible. Have fun!
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06-28-2008, 06:56 AM | #840 | |
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Which reminds me, since there's a thing I've been wondering about, and you lot will no doubt know better. I always thought the view 'God helps those who help themselves' as prevalent in Christian belief. But lately I've seen many accounts of people who prefer to pray to their god for healing instead of (doing the obvious thing and) visit a doctor or continue their medication. So I'm wondering, is the view 'God helps those who help themselves' perhaps more limited to one of the broken-off christian beliefs? If so, which one?
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