03-31-2006, 10:45 PM | #821 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-01-2006 at 02:27 AM. |
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03-31-2006, 10:50 PM | #822 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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That, I wouldn't. Good, my arse.
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03-31-2006, 10:56 PM | #823 |
Elf Lord
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Don't you approve of democracy? If not, why not? Or are you just being silly- I can't tell .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
03-31-2006, 11:00 PM | #824 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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It depends on what you mean by "approve". I don't think it's inherently bad, but I think it's a system of government which is inferior to monarchy.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
03-31-2006, 11:22 PM | #825 | ||
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Well it is true that a monarchy, if well run, is more efficient than democracy. However, if you don't get a belevolent and competant monarch, it's a terrible system. At least you can replace an incompetant Prime Minister.
And, Islam is cool.
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03-31-2006, 11:29 PM | #826 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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You can replace a bad monarch, too. Tyrannicide is perfectly acceptable.
But you speak as though Prime Minister:democracy::monarch:monarchy. This isn't the case. The people (demos):democracy::monarch:monarchy. And if you have a bad democracy in place, changing the government can be extremely bloody. Most religions are, in varying degrees. |
04-01-2006, 01:37 AM | #827 |
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Gwaimir, I'm going to respond to you in the "Political Philosophy" thread about this, because I'm interested in hearing some of your thoughts about democracy and monarchy.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-01-2006 at 02:09 AM. |
04-01-2006, 08:58 AM | #828 | |||
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Every democracy in the West has a period (or more) of death and bloodshed associated with the transition to democracy. You must look at entire histories, not just the parts you like.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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04-01-2006, 11:18 AM | #829 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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"The Black Death" is a drink in Iceland which can make you wish you were dead.
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04-01-2006, 12:06 PM | #830 | |
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04-01-2006, 12:44 PM | #831 | |||||||
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I'll want to look more closely at the religious diversity they're supposed to have allowed. People under the original Islamic nations did have greater religious tolerance than under their Sassanid and Byzantine leaders, but it was still far from what we'd call real religious tolerance. It was only comparative tolerance. So I'll have to look closely at the Ottoman Empire's stance on religion before I believe it was really tolerant. But it can be said for it that it was an improvement for many people . Quote:
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Current Muslim extremists are only following the example of Mohammed. Mohammed took hostages, raided caravans and pulverized helpless Jewish communities in order to weaken his enemies, and then invaded many other tribes which did no offense to him after he destroyed the tribe (the Qur'ayshe) which did persecute him. Muslims have followed Muhammad's example for centuries. Radical Islam is not new. It comes from the founder of the religion, and examples of it continue through the centuries. The Ottoman invasions are one more example of this. Us Christians initiated the Crusades, but that was for the specific purpose of taking the Holy Land, a flawed Christian perspective, but nonetheless at least limited to the Holy Land. This is radically different from Muslim nations of history which have sought to conquer the world. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-01-2006 at 02:14 PM. |
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04-01-2006, 12:47 PM | #832 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Well said Lief. At least I no longer feel " as one lost in the wilderness"....
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
04-01-2006, 02:30 PM | #833 |
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I came to this perspective of Islam entirely through personal research and study. I strongly encourage reading some history textbooks on Mohammed and his immediate successors- it can be very enlightening. The same pattern of violent conquest you'll observe there continues down the centuries since Mohammed, as well.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-01-2006 at 02:45 PM. |
04-01-2006, 04:10 PM | #834 | |
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04-01-2006, 05:10 PM | #835 | |
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04-01-2006, 05:43 PM | #836 | |
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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04-01-2006, 06:09 PM | #837 | |
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however, painting all Christians with the same brush is as silly as claiming the majority of Muslims are violent :shrug:
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04-01-2006, 06:37 PM | #838 | ||||||
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Honestly, it's just ridiculous how people all point to the Crusades and talk about how horrible the Christians were, but nobody mentions the early Islamic invasions, a hundred times the Crusades in scale and impact, launched right after Islam's birth with the goal of not just conquering the Holy Land, but it AND all the rest of the world! It's just crazy. Instead they talk about how Muslims are all peaceful except a handful of extremists. The hypocrisy is mindblowing. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-01-2006 at 06:39 PM. |
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04-01-2006, 08:01 PM | #839 | |||
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If that is so I would say it's more cultural than religious. Again with that culture-religion intertwinedness that we were talking about. Also, Islam means "submission to God" not "blow stuff up" so people who believe Islam is a peaceful religion are not the slightest bit deluded.
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04-01-2006, 11:21 PM | #840 | |
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