Men of the Silmarillion

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Oh I'm watching it alright, otherwise I would never have noticed this little tidbit about Finrod in the first place.

This is where I run and hide, isn't it? Right.

Yes, this is where you run and hide.

Now where did I lay that SoW.

[Blackheart]

You're going to sic a female pig on him?

Ooh. That's 'almost' evil.

You ladies do realize that elves approaching middle age probably feel like having sex once every 10 years or so....

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Blackheart

You're going to sic a female pig on him?

Ooh. That's 'almost' evil.

You ladies do realize that elves approaching middle age probably feel like having sex once every 10 years or so....

On him? Eärniel's a she!

And Finrod is not middle aged!

[Blackheart]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

On him? Eärniel's a she!

*Chuckles in an evil manner* Oh.. then it's just kinky.

Muhahahaaaa....

And Finrod is not middle aged!

Err... by the time they get to Middle-Earth he is.

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Blackheart

Err... by the time they get to Middle-Earth he is.

What an odd - though strangely fitting - argument.

I'm pretty sure that he was not middle aged. 500 hundred years is not especially long when you have the lifespan of the planet... Now, Galadriel in Lothlórien, 6000 years later, is maybe middle aged, but I doubt that anyone of that generation in the First Age was.

And I don't think sex would have been an issue.

I'm going to throw the book at you on this one:

"Doubtless they would retain for many ages the power of generation, if the will and desire were not satisfied; but with the exercise of the power the desire soon ceases, and the mind turns to other things."

Since he's unmarried (though SGH might deny that ), you only need to look at the first part of that, not the second.

[Andúril]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

On him? Eärniel's a she!

Riiiiiight.

[Blackheart]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

I'm pretty sure that he was not middle aged. 500 hundred years is not especially long when you have the lifespan of the planet...

It's a good bet he was a tad older than 500 when he got to middle earth. Melkor's imprisonment alone ran for about 3000 years. Finrod was born during that period. After they got to middle earth he lived about another 500 odd years before he contracted lycanthropy. (Ever wonder about that? he got mauled by a werewolf, and didn't get eaten...)

If you figure he was born a few centuries after Finarfin, I'd estimate he was somewhere in the neighborhood of at least 4-5000 when he died... (If not older, Finwe ruled the Noldor for three ages in Valinor, that's reckoned to be about 9000 years before the darkening)

And I don't think sex would have been an issue.

*chokes* mm hmm...

"Doubtless they would retain for many ages the power of generation, if the will and desire were not satisfied; but with the exercise of the power the desire soon ceases, and the mind turns to other things."

Since he's unmarried (though SGH might deny that ), you only need to look at the first part of that, not the second.

"From me, nothing shall remain..." It would seem that the desire had already waned, especially after his sweety stayed home. If he did have "desires" , they were indeed likely few and far between...

Though, to be charitable, a 5000 year old elf probably has had time to work out techniques that might make waiting 10 years seem worth it....

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Blackheart

It's a good bet he was a tad older than 500 when he got to middle earth. Melkor's imprisonment alone ran for about 3000 years. Finrod was born during that period. After they got to middle earth he lived about another 500 odd years before he contracted lycanthropy. (Ever wonder about that? he got mauled by a werewolf, and didn't get eaten...)

I've read that he was born in the year of the Trees 1300 (I'm fairly certain it's correct), of which there are 1500 years. So, that makes him about 200 years old at the beginning of the First Age. 2000, if you switch that over to the years of the sun... All in all, though, that's not too old for an Elf... So 2500 years is the final count, perhaps.

Don't think so with the lycanthropy... After all, he was k- ki- killed...

Originally Posted by Blackheart

"From me, nothing shall remain..." It would seem that the desire had already waned, especially after his sweety stayed home. If he did have "desires" , they were indeed likely few and far between...

And, sorry SGH , reserved for Amárië. Anyway, he was referring to his kingdom's inevitable destruction with that line, not his own desires!

[Blackheart]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

Don't think so with the lycanthropy... After all, he was k- ki- killed...

I dunno... did anyone ever go back and check to make sure he didn't become an undead werewolf?

Anyway, he was referring to his kingdom's inevitable destruction with that line, not his own desires!

I think he was referring to his OWN destruction with that statement. Which would lead one to think that a king would want to secure his line if at all possible by having an heir.

The fact that he displayed no interest in doing so would seem to indicate that he had indeed "lost the desire". Whether from seperation or foreknowledge of doom it matters little.

[Elemmírë]

Originally Posted by Blackheart

I dunno... did anyone ever go back and check to make sure he didn't become an undead werewolf?

He was buried!

Originally Posted by Blackheart

I think he was referring to his OWN destruction with that statement. Which would lead one to think that a king would want to secure his line if at all possible by having an heir.

If I remember the quote correctly... "nothing of my realm will endure that an heir shall inherit"... or something like that. So, I don't see the need for an heir.

Originally Posted by Blackheart

The fact that he displayed no interest in doing so would seem to indicate that he had indeed "lost the desire". Whether from seperation or foreknowledge of doom it matters little.

He's an Elf! They see things differently!

Enough talking, time to start glomping again.

[Sister Golden Hair]

I believe the quote goes:

An oath I too shall swear and must be free to fulfill it and go into darkness. Nor shall anything of my realm endure that a son should inherit.

[Elemmírë]

Meh. I was close enough.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

Meh. I was close enough.

Hey, if you are going to defend and talk about the fairest of all the princes of the Elves, you should endeavor to be accurate.

[Elemmírë]

I admited that it was "something like that."

Just to please you, SGH...

Here's everything he ever said in the Silmarillion! Thank Eru there's not much dialogue!

"An oath I too shall swear, and must be free to fulfil it, and go into darkness. Nor shall anything of my realm endure that a son should inherit."

"What ill have I done you, lord? Or what evil deed have the Noldor done in all your realm to grieve you? Neither against your kingship nor against any of your people have they thought evil or done evil."

"It is plain that Thingol desires your death; but it seems that this doom goes beyond his purpose, and that the Oath of Fëanor is again at work. For the Silmarils are cursed with an oath of hatred, and he that even names them in desire moves a great power from slumber; and the sons of Fëanor would lay all the Elf-kingdoms in ruin rather than suffer any other than themselves to win or possess a Silmaril, for the Oath drives them. And now Celegorm and Curufin are dwelling in my halls; and though I, Finarfin's son, am King, they have won a strong power in the realm, and lead many of their own people. They have shown friendship to me in every need, but I fear that they will show neither love nor mercy to you, if your quest be told. Yet my own oath holds; and thus we are all ensnared."

"Your oaths of faith to me you may break, but I must hold my bond. Yet if there be any on whom the shadow of our curse has not yet fallen, I should find at least a few to follow me, and should not go hence as a beggar that is thrust from the gates."

"I go now to my long rest in the timeless halls beyond the seas and the Mountains of Aman. It will be long ere I am seen among the Noldor again; and it may be taht we shall not meet a second time in death or life, for the fates of our kindreds are apart. Farewell!"

At least he was wrong about that "long ere I am seen among the Noldor again." The Annals say he was "released soon".

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Sister Golden Hair

Yes, this is where you run and hide.

Now where did I lay that SoW.

Thought so.

Your little Stick of Wrath? I think you've left it in the dryer to get off the last bit of blood of the last person unfortunate enough to diss Finrod.

Running away now.

*runs like hell*

Originally Posted by Elemmire

On him? Eärniel's a she!

And here I was thinking that subscribing under a name ending on '-iel' on a Tolkien messageboard, would have cleared up any interpretation trouble in that area.

[Blackheart]

Originally Posted by Elemmire

He was buried!

and on the next full moon his soulless corpse turned into a werewolf and dug it's way out

So, I don't see the need for an heir.
He's an Elf! They see things differently!

Not THAT differently...

[Blackheart]

"An oath I too shall swear, and must be free to fulfil it, and go into darkness. Nor shall anything of my realm endure that a son should inherit."

Which I would definately interpret as meaning he didn't have time nor mood for footling around with romance, much less sex...

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally Posted by Blackheart

Which I would definately interpret as meaning he didn't have time nor mood for footling around with romance, much less sex...

I take it as, he didn't want to commit himself to a wife or children because he had sworn the oath to Barahir and knew a time would come when he had to fulfill it. However, he may have not come to that final decision when he did had it not been for the foresight coming to him, seemingly being prompted by what Galadriel said.

[Blackheart]

Which means ... had things been different, things might have been different

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally Posted by Blackheart

Which means ... had things been different, things might have been different

Perhaps, but in the next paragraph Tolkien points out how much he was in love with Amarie, so at that time, although it seemed hopeless that the Noldor would ever be permited to return to Valinor, he seemed still to be devoted to her and was not interested in any others.