Gays, lesbians, bisexuals

[Butterbeer]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Get a room? Jesus, Spock; sometimes I really wonder where you're going with your cryptic one-liners.

seemed pretty clear!

[Rían]

Originally Posted by The Wizard from Milan

All women and men of good will should be concerned to do what is right and what is right is to give same-sex couples the same rights and the same obligations as different-sex couples

Originally Posted by The Wizard from Milan

Sweeping proclamations of what supposedly is the right thing to do in any circumstance are neither a marker of intelligence nor a marker of deep morality.

Any comments, TWFM?

[The Wizard from Milan]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Any comments, TWFM?

My comment is that by copy-pasting without giving the context you appear to find contraddictions that are not there.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Absolutely, in real life. There are a lot of ways where the internet is not real life. Think of the entire GM forum as one conversation.

all i'm saying is that it can be that way... i visit, moderate and even own quite a few boards where modding is solely about keeping things civil, and never about keep things "on-topic", and things work out pretty well

i say we have a "no-modding-month", and if all hell breaks loose at least you can say "i told ya so"

[Spock]

Organized discussion within reasonable boundaries is my motto. The Chaos factor is not utilized.

[brownjenkins]

Our real discoveries come from chaos, from going to the place that looks wrong and stupid and foolish.

~ Chuck Palahniuk

[Spock]

If A equals success, then the formula is _ A = _ X + _ Y + _ Z. _ X is work. _ Y is play. _ Z is keep your mouth shut. -- Albert Einstein

[brownjenkins]

we need an ombudsman

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I don't think the newspaper was using the term "gay community" in a way designed to stereotype or harm.

But others do. And they love to trumpet how even this "gay paper" uses it so lumping all gays into one pile is fine.

My point with that statement is that some actual gay people use that term. The Xtra West doesn't declare itself the spokesperson of any group.

Then which "gay community" are they referring to if they say they arent being the spokesperson for any group? Seems like a contradition to me...

Just because some gay people use the term doesnt make it a meaningful term. Its just an easy short cut to take. But an inacurate one.

[Lotesse]

This is really the first time I have ever heard that using the term "gay community" is supposed to be non-meaningful or inaccurate. What?! Gay community just means those who are gay as opposed to those who are not gay. I take it, I. Rex, that you are from the "straight community," no? Does that term insult you? Sometimes I really feel that this politically correct pussy-footing around just goes too ridiculously far, to the point of actually being insulting in its very attempt NOT to insult.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

i guess... but i'm very pro-conversation and very anti-on-topic... when you are sitting with your friends around a fire chatting about life do you chastise them if they go "off topic"?

the most interesting, and rewarding, conversations i've had are ones that often end up very far from where they began

plus, crying "off topic" can be a way of avoiding addressing some of the deeper issues on the subject at hand which are often related, but in a very indirect way

1st paragraph - I agree

2nd paragraph - I agree (and thus my title!)

3rd paragraph - I agree

WOW!!! A record!!!

[Lotesse]

Holy cow, that IS a record!

[Rían]

Originally Posted by The Wizard from Milan

My comment is that by copy-pasting without giving the context you appear to find contraddictions that are not there.

Would you please go ahead and explain why it isn't a contradiction, then? Because to me, it looks like one.


IRex - "topic nazis" Great term!

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

This is really the first time I have ever heard that using the term "gay community" is supposed to be non-meaningful or inaccurate. What?! Gay community just means those who are gay as opposed to those who are not gay. I take it, I. Rex, that you are from the "straight community," no? Does that term insult you? Sometimes I really feel that this politically correct pussy-footing around just goes too ridiculously far, to the point of actually being insulting in its very attempt NOT to insult.

"community" implies shared values... it's like talking about "muslim community" or "christian community"... it implies a similar set of morality/values/interests that simply doesn't exist

it has nothing to do with PC and everything to do with reality

"some gays" or even "a majority of gays" if you had the statistics, would be more accurate

and symantecs do matter... it is how we communicate after all

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Gay community just means those who are gay as opposed to those who are not gay.

Then why not just say gay people?! If what you said is the definition and you start declaring “the gay community wants this!� or “the gay community acts in this manner!� then you are in essence saying ALL gays want this and ALL gays act in one manner. And boy is that wrong. Furthermore, do we say the "left handed community"? The "blonde community"? The "short community"? So then whats the obsession with lumping all gays under one umbrella exactly?

I take it, I. Rex, that you are from the "straight community," no?

My question to you is would you be ok with me speaking as the source for the "straight community"? I have some pretty extreme ideas about whats ok sexually. Can i speak for all straights considering that? Or do we decide by vote who gets to speak for the "straight community"?

You should be well aware this is a meaningless term as well. Seeing as how those of us who are straight can have such vastly different ways of living our lives and vastly different points of view on any and every issue. And furthermore does this then imply that there is a "bisexual community"? Or do they get lumped in with the "gay community"? What about a "bi-curious community"? Are they all one monolithic group as well? Can newspapers say they speak for them when they write articles? Can others who are bi-curious say they speak for all bi-curious people while we are at it? The closest thing you have to a "gay community" is maybe some neighborhoods in San Francisco but then I dont think thats how people mean for the term to be understood. They mean it to say the blanket clump of people who are gay ALL think this way. ALL act this way. ALL want this thing. Well that doesnt work.

Sometimes I really feel that this politically correct pussy-footing around just goes too ridiculously far, to the point of actually being insulting in its very attempt NOT to insult.

Dont be foolish enough to mistake being ACCURATE with being politically correct. There simply is no "gay community" as there is no "gay life style". This isnt at all about insulting anyone. Please allow me to make that clear if thats what you think. Take it from me who regularly calls many of my lesbian friends *expletive* dykes to their faces.

[Lotesse]

com·mu·ni·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k-myn-t)
n. pl. com·mu·ni·ties

A group of people living in the same locality and under the same government.
The district or locality in which such a group lives.

A group of people having common interests: the scientific community; the international business community.

A group viewed as forming a distinct segment of society: the gay community; the community of color.

Similarity or identity: a community of interests.
Sharing, participation, and fellowship.
Society as a whole; the public.

[Lotesse]

Main Entry: com·mu·ni·ty
Pronunciation: k&-'myü-n&t-E
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural -ties

: a unified body of individuals: as a : the people with common interests living in a particular area; broadly : the area itself <the problems of a large community>
b : an interacting population of various kinds of individuals (as species) in a common location
c : a group of people with a common characteristic or interest living together within a larger society <a community of retired persons>

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

A group of people having common interests: the scientific community; the international business community.

err.. are you saying ALL gays have the same common interests?

A group viewed as forming a distinct segment of society: the gay community; the community of color.

So then you agree there is a "left handed community"? A "short community"? A "blonde community" like I was saying above? What about a "female community"? Theres certainly a lot more of them then there are gays. Yet they DONT form a "distinct segment of society"? How does that work exactly?

[Lotesse]

Absolutely. I belong to the ambidextrous blonde Italian-Irish bisexual agnostic community, myself.

[Rían]

I think if a significant number of gay people feel like "gay community" is a valid expression, and they want to use it, then who are we to deny them the right to call themselves what they want? At least I've heard that argument here before ...

And this thing about using the term "gay community" means that the person thinks all gay people are the same is just a strawman, IMHO. The term is used only in connection with issues that tend to be important to many gay people, that's all. When I was helping to design an air traffic control simulator/training program, I didn't refer to the gay community, but I did refer to air traffic controller community and what their likes and dislikes tended to be as a group. And if I talk about the definition of marriage, for example, I think using the term "gay community" would definitely be appropriate.