02-15-2007, 05:26 PM | #801 | |
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02-15-2007, 05:29 PM | #802 | |
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By definition it would be, but since most protestant who call the Pope the antichrist don't even consider that aspect, it's kinda irrelevant.
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02-15-2007, 05:31 PM | #803 |
Elf Lord
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Really.
Many Protestants exactly and specifically believe the Pope is the Anti-Christ.
Scary, but true. |
02-15-2007, 05:32 PM | #804 | |
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02-15-2007, 05:35 PM | #805 |
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Those protestants don't know what they're talkin about...
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02-15-2007, 05:39 PM | #806 | |
Elf Lord
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LOL hector
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02-15-2007, 05:43 PM | #807 |
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Well of course I think that...how else would I transfer it to vBulletin messageboard format?
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02-15-2007, 05:46 PM | #808 |
Elf Lord
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*staggers and grabs for chair*
You are THINKING before posting?
See, I'd have lost money on THAT bet. |
02-15-2007, 05:50 PM | #809 |
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*clears throat*
So you've lost a lot of bets before, eh?
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02-15-2007, 06:58 PM | #810 | |||
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I was Press Secretary for the Berlioz administration and also, but not limited to, owner and co operator of fully armed and operational battle station EDDIE Quote:
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02-15-2007, 07:08 PM | #811 | |
Elf Lord
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Look.
They have proof.
http://www.rsglh.org/is_the_pope_antichrist.htm Quote:
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02-15-2007, 07:31 PM | #812 | |
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02-16-2007, 03:18 AM | #813 | |||||
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The Protestant Church in modern times isn't anywhere remotely close to what it was like back then, in terms of opposition to Catholicism. Now, as I have pointed out through the Ecumenical Organization I linked, reconciliation is developing and has been for a long time. There are still some Protestants who view the Catholics as pagan and the pope as the Anti-Christ, but I disagree with sisterandcousinandaunt that this number is "many." That is certainly not a view you hear expressed in mainstream Protestantism nowadays, and I think it's a rare one. More commonly, you'll hear some people say that Catholics aren't Christian, and leave it at that comparatively mild statement. But the number that say that aren't a huge a percentage of the Christian population, I don't think. Else you can be sure that you'd hear the accusations flying on the major news headlines. Whenever something that sounds radical is spoken by a major group or is professed by a major group, it hits major headlines. The media loves to make fun of the church .
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02-16-2007, 04:26 AM | #814 | ||||||||
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As for people being "at" God's right hand, that's another story. I don't remember any other passage in the Old Testament that refers to people being placed "at" God's right hand, which is very different from being "aided by" God's hand. Quote:
Yet Jesus was not only a descendent of David legally. There also is strong reason to believe that he was a descendent of David physically, through Mary. Luke chapter 3 contains a genealogy of Jesus that has in it some differences from that which describes the ancestry of Joseph. It begins with a reference to the virgin birth, which suggests Mary's importance in Jesus' genealogy, and implies that this genealogy may well be referring to her ancestry. That genealogy also goes back to David. Quote:
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Remember also that when Abram's name was changed to Abraham, the new name meant, "father of many," which clearly was a direct reference to who Abraham was destined to be. It directly described who he was in God's plan. Quote:
You haven't yet responded to my point about the name "Everlasting Father," either, I wish to remind you. Quote:
I would also refer you again to Jeremiah 23:5-6, a passage I cited and which you haven't yet responded to. There, the Messiah was called, "YHWH Tsidkenu," "The Lord our Righteousness," "Yahweh our Righteousness." I also have spoken further on Genesis since your last response, and await your reply there too .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 02-16-2007 at 04:29 AM. |
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02-16-2007, 06:25 AM | #815 |
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Lief, it's hardly my fault you can't read Hebrew. Look up a Hebrew bible at some point, look at the passages in question. As for the LORD our righteousness, it's also not hyphenated (yhvh tzidkenu), and translated by Jews "the LORD is our righteousness" - meaning that people will celebrate the LORD when invoking the wonders he has done, not that he is the LORD himself. Same as you've got lots of Muslims nowadays lying around with names derived from Allahu Akbar, God is Great - doesn't mean they're God.
Just because two of your books (Matthew and Luke) can't agree on Joseph's lineage doesn't mean they aren't both trying to describe that lineage; there is no grammatical reason to read "being, as it was supposed, the son of Joseph, the son of Heli" and so on through all the "sons of" as anything but a list going back starting with Joseph, especially as the KJV has "Joseph, WHICH WAS the son of Heli" and so on. I don't have any problem with someone calling the Messiah Abi-Ad, which is Eternal Father. It's a name. It's a highfalutin name. But it's not Avinu-Ad, which is OUR everlasting father, it's just Father in general. The sentence in which you were completely confused about what I meant with Abraham is only confusing because you chopped my paragraph up. "He" in the 2nd sentence is Jesus, it's a conclusion of the paragraph. As for right hand, let's start with Exodus 15:6 Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power David did not necessarily write the psalm in question, nor if he did did he necessarily write it for his own singing. It is a psalm "l'david" which can translate as from David (ie by David) or about David. In the latter case, my sovereign is David. As for names; I see, so there must be a literal child named the spoil speedeth, the prey hasteneth? Because every interpretation I know of takes that as a metaphor, introduced just to express how destroyed those nations will be; and I see no reason the next chapter can't be a metaphor for just how saved Israel will be. All actions trademark God Inc, YHVH sole proprietor.
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02-16-2007, 10:20 AM | #816 | ||
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Lief, as I've said,
You have not demonstrated skills in evaluating these sources.
This is how Peter Stoner (who did not have a doctorate) was described, in his professional life, by his friend. "At Pasadena City College Peter was Chairman of the Department of Mathematics, Astronomy, and Architecture. (which, by your logic, might make him an architect?)He taught there for 41 years. Roger Voskuyl, then president of Westmont College, pulled Peter back from the brink of a well-earned retirement to teach at Westmont. Teaching mathematics led to astronomy and then to head of the Science Department and building an observatory for Westmont's 16-inch reflecting telescope. In 1963 he left the haunting smell of chalkdust, having completed 50 years of teaching." He was hired in 1913 to teach math at a community college, with a Master's degree. His computations were created, to his specifications, by students in his community college classes, and checked by his friends at the faith based ipse dixit "science" organization he founded. This in no way makes him a "mathematician." At best it makes him a "math teacher." And being affirmed by your like-minded friends is not the same as being "peer reviewed." He is listed as the author of many books on Christ (all orginally published by the group he created to Spread the Word) but of no papers in the field of mathematics. I say, therefore, Quote:
And here? I believe you fall into this category Quote:
And what that tells me is, we differ on the definition of Christian. (I've enjoyed your posts, Count. Very interesting. I wish I read Hebrew.) |
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02-16-2007, 10:23 AM | #817 | |
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02-16-2007, 10:27 AM | #818 | |
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You're misunderstanding, hector.
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02-16-2007, 12:08 PM | #819 | |
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The formalities of the Church were considered very important to salvation. Just as an opposite: very important NOT to have them
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02-16-2007, 02:00 PM | #820 | ||
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I'm not sure where they got the 99.5 percent-figure, but I suspect that the figure depends a lot on which translation of the Bible they're talking about. King James's, one of the as far as I have gathered most popular version up until recent times, is based on a translatation of a greek text made in the early 16th century from ca 100 randomly assembled greek texts (well, most of it anyway - some passages in John were simply translated back to greek from the Vulgata - also, most of the time the translator relied on one or two of the greek texts he had available), among which there later was found up to 30 000 - major but of course mostly minor - inconcistensies (that's excluding the differences in word ordering). The start of the Gospel of John is f.ex. not found in any of the earliest greek texts (the only place where the doctrine of the Holy Trinity is explicitly lain out, afaik), but derrived from the Vulgata. This doesn't "disprove" the New Testament of course, and most of it, depending on the translation one uses, probably reflects the original manuscripts (how well they reflect the life of Jesus is a different matter, but one I think we've already been trough ). Much of the "main-stream" doctrine of today is still derrived from earlier times, though, before one had any real text-criticism, and some of it isn't even from the Bible (like most of Satan's 'biography', which has its own history: most protestant denominations accept the Catholic tradition - sola scriptura be damned). People will thus, IMO, interpret it in the light of what they've already learned is true, even though the early Christians might have thought them to mean something different. Also, since many passages can be interpreted in a lot of different ways depending on the translation of a Greek (or English, for that matter) word or what the word itself means in the relevant context...well, there's no wonder there has been so many different Christian denominations up through the ages. A somewhat chaotic post, but I think I got at least some of my points across.
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