REAL debate thread for RELIGION

[Drgnslyer]

One dark period in the christian history is the addition of the word heretic into the bible which spurned the great witch hunts. The pagan religions were still fairly prominent at the time and the church felt they needed to lessen the pagan impact on the populus....they took the witch's physical form of their god, changed it a little, and used that as the image of satan...before this period there was no description of a cloven hooved satan.

*the witch god of the sun/day has hte legs of a goat, body of a man, and antlers of a stag, the animal imagery to symbolize the god's attunement to nature*

The christian devil or satan was forever known as part goat part man, with horns.

As well, candlemas and Yule, periods of celebration for witches was overrun when the christians placed christmas in late december...jesus christ was born in the summer, not in winter.

The witch hunts were also very one-sided...*we'll toss you into the lake, if you float, you're a witch and will be burned, if you drown...well we're sorry, but you'll be honored to have a good, christian death.*

That's just one example of the rediculousness of the trials of that period....

This isn't so much an example of hypcricy, however it is one of the reasons why I've shyed away from christianity as a faith of choice.

[Mercutio]

The witch trial in Monty Python -- Quite hilarious (as is that entire movie).

Anyway...The real date of Jesus' birth is still debated by scholars, but the best guess is that he was born in the springtime. The observance of Christmas is not just an observance of a date, but a commemoration of an event. It should not matter whether he was actually born on December 25. This date was chosen during the fourth century to celebrate Jesus' birth because this Christian celebration would be an alternative the the pagan winter solstice.

There are radical factions in every political/social/religious group. AND people make mistakes--Is every Muslim, Buddhist, or Hindu perfect? The important thing is that they changed these ideas/practices. Just because someone in the religion was wrong doesn't make that entire religion wrong.

People can say they are a Christian, or Muslim, or whatever, but not actually be one.

Just a few thoughts,

Mercutio

[Drgnslyer]

*We are no longer the knights who say "NI!"....we are now the knights who sayyyyyyyyy....."Icky Icky Icky Icky K-Pang RU poing...*mumble mumble*...*

:P That movie is amazing :P

Very good point in that events like that do not make every person of htat faith like their predecessors.......no one faith in the world is perfect, and to ignorantly claim that your faith is flawless will only serve to harm you and the reputation of your faith in the long term.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally posted by Drgnslyer
*We are no longer the knights who say "NI!"....we are now the knights who sayyyyyyyyy....."Icky Icky Icky Icky K-Pang RU poing...*mumble mumble*...*

:P That movie is amazing :P

Very good point in that events like that do not make every person of htat faith like their predecessors.......no one faith in the world is perfect, and to ignorantly claim that your faith is flawless will only serve to harm you and the reputation of your faith in the long term.

you know, i always thought it was 'Nay-wok, ikki ikki ikki, patAnG'
of course i may be wrong, it's just i've seen the films about 200 times each,
my favourite character is mr creosote from meaning of life

french waiter: good day sir, and 'ow are we feeling?
mr creosote: better
french waiter: better .... sir?
mr creosote: better get a bucket, i'm gonna throw up .. <blugh>

[Drgnslyer]

haha...could be that too...

"what are you going to do...bleed on me?"
"I'M INVINCIBLE! The Black Knight
ALWAYS triumphs!"
"You're a loonie...."

....or how every sperm is sacred....:P

...."We are the judean people's front crack suicide squad!"

*My apologies to non Monty Python fans/cracks*

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

'I'm Brian'
'No ... I'm Brian'
'I'm Brian .. and so's my wife'

[Nurvingiel]

I think we're a little OT guys... though, Monty Python could possibly be considered a religion.

"Worship the Python, it is very Monty." --Miss Cam

What does make something a religion? Cults are religions, albeit small and margianalized (some for good reason).

[Falagar]

We could form our own brother-and sisterhood, worshipping Bryan!

I just started the NT, by the way. Just to please you, RÃ*an.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
I think we're a little OT guys... though, Monty Python could possibly be considered a religion.

"Worship the Python, it is very Monty." --Miss Cam

What does make something a religion? Cults are religions, albeit small and margianalized (some for good reason).

on uk census, if 1000 ppl say they are a religion, it automatically becomes an official religion

[sun-star]

Originally posted by Last Child of Ungoliant
on uk census, if 1000 ppl say they are a religion, it automatically becomes an official religion

Sorry, but that's just an urban legend. Unfortunately

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

aaaawwwww that's a shame
would have been good for monty python to become uk's official religion

[brownjenkins]

one of my favorite python quotes from life of brian:

Brian: "Who cured you?"

Ex-leper: "Jesus did, sir. I was hopping along, minding my own business. All of a sudden, up he comes. Cures me. One minute I'm a leper with a trade, next minute my livelihood's gone. Not so much as a by your leave. 'You're cured mate.' Bloody do-gooder."

Brian: "Well, why don't you go and tell him you want to be a leper again?"

Ex-leper: "Ah, yeah. I could do that, sir. Yeah. Yeah, I could do that, I suppose. What I was thinking was, I was going to ask him if he could make me a bit lame in one leg during the middle of the week. You know, something beggable, but not leprosy, which is a pain in the arse, to be blunt. Excuse my French, sir, but, uh--"

[Katie of the Golden Wood]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Are we specifically talking about the Catholic Church right now?

The story of Jesus in the temple was not one to specifically denounce the moneychangers (who can, conviently, charge whatever interest they want), or selling animals. Rather, Jesus drove these people out of the Lord's temple because they were using it as a marketplace, something it certainly should not be. I'm not sure where people pick this up as denouncing gambling. Could you point it out for me?

In the Life of Pi, how can someone practice Islam, Hinduism, and Christianity all at once? Or did they just incororate different aspects of each into their own personal religion?
.

Sorry, that was my mistake. As for Life of Pi, its hard to explain without reading the books. But to sum it up as Pi does,

That Hindus, in their capacity for love, are indeed hairless Christians, just as Muslims, in the way they see God in everything, are bearded Hindus, and Christians, in their devotion to God, are hat wearing Muslims.

He believes in the aspects of all faiths. He loves the power of Hinduism and owes it "the original landscape of my religious imagination those towns and rivers, battlefields and forests, holy mountains and deep seas where gods, saints, villians, and oridinary people rub shoulders, and in doing so, define who we are."
He loves the humanity of Jesus Christ. Compared to the power and might of Hindu gods he is at first unable to understand Jesus' human weakness, such as the story of the fig tree. He is angry that a "petulant God" would be compared to Krishna. But, as Pi says, "I couldn't get Him out of my head. Still can't. I spent three solid days thinking about Him. The more He bothered me, the less I could forget Him. And the more I learned I learned about Him, the less I wanted to leave Him."
As for Islam, Pi says: "I challenge anyone to understand Islam, its spirit, and not to love it. It is a beatuiful religion full of brotherhood and devotion."

Hope that helps Mercutio!

[Mercutio]

Thanks for the explanation. It sounds interesting.

[Mercutio]

To keep the discussion moving,

What do non-Christian religions say about the Christian Bible? Do they deny its truth, or believe some parts but not all?

hmm...

[Drgnslyer]

I recognize the bible as an incredible story combining religion and history...although I also recognize that it has been re-written numerous times, and has lost some of it's origional accuracy.

The beliefs of christians, god, heaven, and hell all exist in my eyes simply because so many people believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that they exist...the human mind is incredibly powerful...if you simply know something to exist, it will on some level.

It's been such a big part of the world for so long that it simply cannot not exist...tho I don't believe that anything beyond our own comprehension is limited to that only.

[brownjenkins]

Originally posted by Drgnslyer
The beliefs of christians, god, heaven, and hell all exist in my eyes simply because so many people believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that they exist...the human mind is incredibly powerful...if you simply know something to exist, it will on some level.

It's been such a big part of the world for so long that it simply cannot not exist...tho I don't believe that anything beyond our own comprehension is limited to that only.

of course, this can be said of all the major religions... some also believe that ultimately god is within the mind... so it may be that what one believes is, for all practical intents and purposes, what "is"

[Katie of the Golden Wood]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
of course, this can be said of all the major religions... some also believe that ultimately god is within the mind... so it may be that what one believes is, for all practical intents and purposes, what "is"

That's what I've always believed to. I think that Heaven is different for everyone. Peopel have different ideas of what "perfect" means, so Heaven couldn't be one thing could it? For everyone to think its perfect, would it have to be custamized?

Katie

[Mercutio]

I'd think in heaven we'd be on a higher intellecutal/spirtual level (i guess) where we wouldn't be thinking-- "Oh. I don't like that" or "This way is better than (whatever)". there is probably some level of perfection that we can't even comprehend right now.

[Drgnslyer]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
of course, this can be said of all the major religions... some also believe that ultimately god is within the mind... so it may be that what one believes is, for all practical intents and purposes, what "is"

Jesus actually had said that god should be worshipped within yourself, and recognize his love within your own soul, and in the world around you...a sentiment equally echoed by *or depending on your perspective, 'from'* pagan religions such as witchcraft.