Theology III

[Mari]

Originally Posted by Curufin

...nobody's going to win this...

Really? But... but... I wanted to win *pouts*

[Azrael]

yeah that was a little messed up how i said that...... I meant to say something more along the lines of learning more why I believe the way I do and what other peeps views are so I can get a better understanding on...well everything I guess.... so this is not a debate? ok thought it was my bad still want to join if no one minds

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Azrael

yeah that was a little messed up how i said that...... I meant to say something more along the lines of learning more why I believe the way I do and what other peeps views are so I can get a better understanding on...well everything I guess.... so this is not a debate? ok thought it was my bad still want to join if no one minds

No one minds, of course. We're very glad to have more people. It's all more interesting that way .

There's not much going on here right now. Would you care to start Round 2 by explaining what some of your views are? Or just read some of what's already been said in the thread and respond to it? I don't know- do what you like .

We just got through one or two weeks of intense debating and everything seems to have cooled down at present.

The word "debate" means different things to different people. To some it means a hostile argument, while to others it's just a . . . a non-nasty clash of different ideas. Discussion/debate. Definitions .

[Azrael]

hmm I have a few I guess not sure if their what you talk about here but here it goes.

1. Christians believe Jesus died for our sins. Why did he have to die? I mean why could God not snap his fingers and clear our sins, I know he could of done it but why didn't he?

2. Mormons believe only 144,000 people will be taken to heaven and only the best can go. If they believe in the bible and it says "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" then how can one be better then the other? I mean if were all guilty of the same sins then how can one be better?

3. Mormans also believe that when you get to Heaven you will be given your own planet to be God over. They also believe that God Himself was once human and the first to get to Heaven and got this planet to be the God of. Then why in the bible does it say (not a direct quote) " I have always been, always am and always will be. I am the one true God" wouldn't that mean He is the only God there is?

4. If everyone says " Christianity is the way to heaven" would that not make the bible wrong? It says Jesus is the "only" way to Heaven, so then its not what religion you believe that gets you to Heaven, but who? Jesus.


These are a few starters I have my own answers that I believe for the most part are correct maybe off in some areas, but I want to hear what everyone else says then I can see other views to make my view more clear. is this what you wanted?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Why do I get the feeling someone kind of specialises in anti-Mormon polemic?

[Azrael]

yes and no..not anti Mormon, but I do not understand their beliefs so i put a few questions so I could get answers to them....sorry if it offended you

[Gwaimir Windgem]

No, no, I'm not Mormon. I just noticed that the questions seemed to be geared in a specific direction.

[Azrael]

well I am as I said Christian...in a sense not American Christian cause I think our culture has corrupted it so that it would be accepted by our culture, but not the point. I am starting a study on other religions so that I can understand them and I'm on Mormon now and the stuff they believe baffles me, so I was hoping there was a Mormon or someone who understands their beliefs who could shed so light on this. Everyone I talked to says their closer to a cult then a religion, true or not they are by our standards good people.

o if theres Christians in here pray for me...Scientology is on my list and im sorry they are messed up in my opinion

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Mormons believe they are Christian.

[Mari]

Azrael, who in your opinion is a Christian? And what is a Christian?
I'd like to have your definition before I can tell you whether I am one or not according to you.

[Azrael]

That they do, but their belief also says that you don't really need Jesus to get to heaven...that God will show mercy to the "good" people and allow them in...and Christains believe you cannot get to Heaven by good deeds, only Jesus alone.

this is my example of good deeds vs. Jesus only way

say I bake you a cake, but leave it in the oven to long and it is burned and turns black. To cover up the burnt cake I put white icing on it and it looks "good" really good. You take it because it looks like a good cake, but when you bite into it you realize its burnt.Jesus is the only one who can make that burnt cake normal. So the burnt cake is sin and were the cake. The icing is good deeds. So no matter how much icing you put on the cake, its still burnt and needs to be fixed.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Mormons believe they are Christian.

So do some Hindus . And Universalists . . . It can get pretty zany.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Hindus aren't Christian, and don't believe they are. But you don't believe there are any Christian Universalists?

[Azrael]

well there is two different types in my opinion. Theres the one who says their Christian because they go to church, but the other six days of the week (unless you go to church on Wednesdays too) they do things that do not say their Christian and in turn think by going to church once a week, their saved. The theres the one that says their Christian because they've accept what Jesus did for them and believe whole heartedly. When their not at church they still show people Jesus's love threw their actions and words. As for me I hope im the second one sure I make many mistakes but I never stop trying to make my Father happy, and to give you a basic of what I believe I'll tell you the GOSPEL

God created us to be with Him.
Our sins separate us from God.
Sins cannot be removed by good deeds.
Paying for our sins, Jesus died and rose again.
Everyone who believes and trusts in Him will have eternal life.
Life that is eternal means we will be with Him forever!

(this was made by Greg Steir, of Dare 2 Share)
This is what I believe a Christian is, someone who believes in Jesus and lives their life to be like Him, not because they have to, but because they want to. Jesus gave us an amazing gift and I want to thank Him by giving my life to Him and glorifying His name!

[Azrael]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Hindus aren't Christian, and don't believe they are. But you don't believe there are any Christian Universalists?

fill me in, whats a Universalists? I bet I know, but never heard them called that. Is it Christians who believe God made Evolution?

[Mari]

Originally Posted by Azrael

that God will show mercy to the "good" people and allow them in...and Christains believe you cannot get to Heaven by good deeds, only Jesus alone.

IMO this is a description of a particular group of denominations within Christianity and not of Christians per se.
In your definition I would not be a Christian perhaps. I however consider myself to be one though.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Christian Univarsalists believe that Christ died to save mankind from sin, and that that did it.

No one is going to hell forever, because God wants them saved, and He has both the power and the time to accomplish that.

[Azrael]

what do you believe then, my friend?

[Azrael]

awww so they believe that Jesus died for everyone...but you don't have to believe in it to get to Heaven...interesting...what do you think?

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Hindus aren't Christian, and don't believe they are.

Some of them do. Gandhi once said, when asked what his religion was, "I am a Hindu, I am a Muslim, I am a Christian, I am a Sikh -- I follow the basic principles of all religions."

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

But you don't believe there are any Christian Universalists?

It depends what kind of Universalism we're talking about. If they deny the necessity of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, they are not Christian.