Should evolution be taught in schools?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
hey - im just stating the truth. you can call someone ignorant on this board :P (if they really are - look up definition).

At least I did not call him an ignorant fool.

You are too late. I already called him ignorant.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
No- because unlike creationism - science doesn't claim everything is known. They also are searching for the origins and cause of the Big Bang. Under your feelings- it seems as if if you don't understand it - then you can just explain it away as being god and be done with it. Science tries pieciing the puzzle together and is always searching for the TRUTH - not something that they just believe to be the truth.

Creationism doesn't claim everything is told through the Bible either. We know for a fact that there are numerous things about heaven, about the spiritual realm, and about science that aren't spoken about in the Bible. But the Lord tells us what we need to know to come to him and to come to know him deeply, through the Bible.

Scientists believe what they believe, all the different theories in science nowadays, because they have very good reasons to believe those things. They believe what they have experienced, based upon all the evidence they have at hand.

I believe in the Bible's accuracy, about spiritual things as well as those scientific things it has in it, based upon my experience with God. It is not merely belief and faith, without reason for belief and faith.

[Cirdan]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
hey - im just stating the truth. you can call someone ignorant on this board :P (if they really are - look up definition).

At least I did not call him an ignorant fool.

Isn't there some rule that states it's onl;y flaming if it isn't true?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
Creationism doesn't claim everything is told through the Bible either. We know for a fact that there are numerous things about heaven, about the spiritual realm, and about science that aren't spoken about in the Bible. But the Lord tells us what we need to know to come to him and to come to know him deeply, through the Bible.

So then you don't believe that god created the heaven and earth in six days and on the 7th rested? Or that he created Adam and Eve or that they bit an apple and were cast out of the Garden of Eden?

Scientists believe what they believe, all the different theories in science nowadays, because they have very good reasons to believe those things. They believe what they have experienced, based upon all the evidence they have at hand.

EXACTLY - and there is very good evidence to support evolution. There is really nothing to support Intelligent design - other than BELIEF (without facts). Belief is the corner stone of religion - and without that - religion falls apart. Belief is NOT the corner stone of science - the search for the TRUTH is the corner stone of science.

I believe in the Bible's accuracy, about spiritual things as well as those scientific things it has in it, based upon my experience with God. It is not merely belief and faith, without reason for belief and faith.

Why do you believe the bibles accuracy? Why not the ancient romans or greeks? Why can't Poseidon be living under the sea? Is that anymore implausable than a heaven and hell? Why can't there be gods that cause eruptions and makes the waves swell and cause tidal waves? Because science has proven what causes these things. They're no longer mysterious things we need to explain away by mythical beings.

[Ruinel]

[

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
...We know for a fact that there are numerous things about heaven, about the spiritual realm, and about science that aren't spoken about in the Bible....

Scientists believe what they believe, all the different theories in science nowadays, because they have very good reasons to believe those things. They believe what they have experienced, based upon all the evidence they have at hand.

You do not 'know numberous things about heaven', you only believe what you have been told through the leaders of your faith. These things have no basis in fact or reality. There is no evidence that anyone can present to support the creation theory. Only what people believe through their religious beliefs. Just as any of the other religions believe. It is what you were taught as a child, because you did not question it.

Science is not based on belief systems as religions are. As I said before, science is not like a religion. Please do NOT mix them up. They have good reason to believe (as you say) what is real and what is not.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
So then you don't believe that god created the heaven and earth in six days and on the 7th rested? Or that he created Adam and Eve or that they bit an apple and were cast out of the Garden of Eden?

You misunderstand me. I do believe in the historical and scientific validity of the Bible. I do believe in the Adam and Eve story, and in the Creation story (Though I think the current interpretation of the Creation story is too simplistic). I was pointing out that the purpose of the Bible wasn't to be a book that tells everything there is to know about everything. It doesn't need to talk about the atomic theory or Quantum Mechanics, for it has a specific purpose which is to instruct us on something different.

Originally posted by jerseydevil
EXACTLY - and there is very good evidence to support evolution. There is really nothing to support Intelligent design - other than BELIEF (without facts). Belief is the corner stone of religion - and without that - religion falls apart. Belief is NOT the corner stone of science - the search for the TRUTH is the corner stone of science.

It is true that science is believed because of evidence. The Bible is believed because of evidence too, though. In many cases, anyway. There are Christians that aren't born again yet but who believe anyway, without any sort of evidence.

But in the Bible, does God ever demand people to believe in him with no evidence at all to back up those claims? No. Paul didn't believe, and through miraculous experience, God drew him to himself. Gideon had trouble believing, and God proved himself to him through miraculous signs.

Today is no different. I have come to know God through miraculous experience (The born again experience), and God has proved himself faithful to me ever since. We believe based upon evidence, even though it is an evidence that only will work for those people who have experienced it, and not for everyone. Everyone does have access to it though, if they look for it. That is something I have tried to drive home repeatedly on Entmoot, but everyone ignores me. I wonder why .

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Why do you believe the bibles accuracy? Why not the ancient romans or greeks? Why can't Poseidon be living under the sea? Is that anymore implausable than a heaven and hell? Why can't there be gods that cause eruptions and makes the waves swell and cause tidal waves? Because science has proven what causes these things. They're no longer mysterious things we need to explain away by mythical beings.

I have no reason to believe in Poseidon. I have very great reason to believe in God. And it's not simply believing, as Ruinel has said, and as Atheists tend to believe. That's all they can see, so that's what they say. That's all they think there is. There is more; they simply haven't experienced it, and as it doesn't fit their own beliefs, they don't believe in it.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
You misunderstand me. I do believe in the historical and scientific validity of the Bible. I do believe in the Adam and Eve story, and in the Creation story (Though I think the current interpretation of the Creation story is too simplistic). I was pointing out that the purpose of the Bible wasn't to be a book that tells everything there is to know about everything. It doesn't need to talk about the atomic theory or Quantum Mechanics, for it has a specific purpose which is to instruct us on something different.

But then if you believe in Adam and Even - then you really can't believe in Intelligent Design. The bible is pretty clear on things - but people didn't understand stuff when they wrote it.

It is true that science is believed because of evidence. The Bible is believed because of evidence too, though. In many cases, anyway. There are Christians that aren't born again yet but who believe anyway, without any sort of evidence.

There is no evidence in the bible. There is no evidence that there was a big flood - as I have gone on about before - nor is there proof that there was an Adam and Eve or that there was a Job. It's all belief in a book you BELIEVE was written by god.

But in the Bible, does God ever demand people to believe in him with no evidence at all to back up those claims? No. Paul didn't believe, and through miraculous experience, God drew him to himself. Gideon had trouble believing, and God proved himself to him through miraculous signs.

He does repeatedly - you just chose to pick out things where he actually provides proof. You're also only looking at the new testament obviously - because there god asks to have blind faith.

Today is no different. I have come to know God through miraculous experience (The born again experience), and God has proved himself faithful to me ever since. We believe based upon evidence, even though it is an evidence that only will work for those people who have experienced it, and not for everyone.

What evidence would that be?

Everyone does have access to it though, if they look for it. That is something I have tried to drive home repeatedly on Entmoot, but everyone ignores me. I wonder why .

I don't ignore you - I just don't believe in a mythical being like that. Give me proof. Some scientific evidence (not just well I feel his presence around me - or I see him in the flowers and animals) .

I have no reason to believe in Poseidon. I have very great reason to believe in God. And it's not simply believing, as Ruinel has said, and as Atheists tend to believe. That's all they can see, so that's what they say. That's all they think there is. There is more; they simply haven't experienced it, and as it doesn't fit their own beliefs, they don't believe in it.

You don't know what I've experienced - so you can't really say. I have studied it and I used to read the bible - then I started thinking about it and came to the conclusion none of it made really much sense.

I feel that religion is just a way for people to come to grips with death and to understand things we currently can't explain.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
...It doesn't need to talk about the atomic theory or Quantum Mechanics, for it has a specific purpose which is to instruct us on something different....

Well, I would hope that it wouldn't talk about such things as Quantum Mechanics since the concept of the quantized nature of energy was first explained by Max Planck in the early 1900's (do not make me look that up for you!). I would think that the bible was written, long before humans had any concept of this, by primitive people.

... The Bible is believed because of evidence too, though...But in the Bible, does God ever demand people to believe in him with no evidence at all to back up those claims? No....

There is no evidence presented that verifies the existence of a supernatural being. Please feel free to believe what you wish. But do NOT impose your religion on the schools that I pay taxes to support. That would not be right. Teach you beliefs in your churches, not in our public schools.

That is something I have tried to drive home repeatedly on Entmoot, but everyone ignores me. I wonder why .

.... I'm sorry... were you saying something?

[Earniel]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I like that - a moderator - moderating an admin.

He'll probably whack me with his little adminstick back into my proper place in the pecking order for that very soon. Oh, wait... it was only SGH who had an adminstick. Heehee...

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
It is true that science is believed because of evidence. The Bible is believed because of evidence too, though. In many cases, anyway. There are Christians that aren't born again yet but who believe anyway, without any sort of evidence.

But in the Bible, does God ever demand people to believe in him with no evidence at all to back up those claims? No. Paul didn't believe, and through miraculous experience, God drew him to himself. Gideon had trouble believing, and God proved himself to him through miraculous signs.

I think that's the tricksy part. Religion is based on personal experience. You believe because of the personal experience you had. However no one can have that same experience. Which means scientific methods can't analyse it properly. Science on the other hand is based on experiences that can be witnessed by more than just one and that will have each time the same outcome. Therefore science (IMO) cannot be put on the same level as religion, namely belief.

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
Everyone does have access to it though, if they look for it. That is something I have tried to drive home repeatedly on Entmoot, but everyone ignores me. I wonder why .

Not everyone needs a god to believe in to be content, Lief. I believe that's something some of us are trying to drive home as well.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Eärniel
He'll probably whack me with his little adminstick back into my proper place in the pecking order for that very soon. Oh, wait... it was only SGH who had an adminstick. Heehee...

HOBBIT doesn't have as much power as SGH. She keeps him in line.

Not everyone needs a god to believe in to be content, Lief. I believe that's something some of us are trying to drive home as well.

EXACTLY

[HOBBIT]

Bah, what are you talking about? The only thing SGH has more than me is years.... like 50 more years than me :P

Earniel is just a RPG forum mod - no power anywhere else. Do people actually go in there? j/k... im sure people must go in there... right? :P

[Earniel]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
Earniel is just a RPG forum mod - no power anywhere else. Do people actually go in there? j/k... im sure people must go in there... right? :P

I'm just not as powerhungry as some people. j/k I got 'hired' because the entmoot needed a second RPG-moderator at the time. What's your excuse?

[HOBBIT]

Originally posted by Eärniel
I'm just not as powerhungry as some people. j/k I got 'hired' because the entmoot needed a second RPG-moderator at the time. What's your excuse?

I got elected by thet people of entmoot to be there president - and I was given moderator powers. I have since been promoted to admin :P

[Earniel]

And how many people did you have to bribe for that?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
I got elected by thet people of entmoot to be there president - and I was given moderator powers. I have since been promoted to admin :P

The election was rigged. And people were afraid to vote against you because of Ben I'm sure.

[Ruinel]

WOW! Look at the spammers!!! BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Joking!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
Bah, what are you talking about? The only thing SGH has more than me is years.... like 50 more years than me :P

So you're saying that SGH is like 65 then?

[Giroth]

LOL


cassiopeia,

I believe I have the right to speak my mind here,as everyone else does.
You can rip my belief,therefore I have the right to do the same about evolution.
Don't let my thoughts offend you.I won't let your thoughts offend me.I believe
the earth was created by God long ago,
and that we didn't all just evolve from amoebas.Period.it doesn't add up whatsoever to me,and maybe MY thoughts don't add up for you.

Ah,and I am not ignorant.....I have to read about evolution already.It STILL doesn't add up.More is against that theory than there is with it.


oh,but this is all MY opinion,now,isn't it?Take it or leave it,friendsThank you.


~Giroth

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Giroth
More is against that theory than there is with it.

What planet do u live on? Or is that just based on the people you hang out with? If I go out to Indiana - I come up with more people who support creationism. When I go to other parts of the US - more people support evolution. More scientists support evolution than those who don't.

I went to Catholic school all my life - as I have said repeatedly - and we were taught evolution in school NOT creationism.

[Giroth]

Ah,I can see you support evolution and not creationism.And it is not my point of what
the scientists say,or what you say,
but about the past and what makes the MOStT sense.I mean,if we evolved from monkies,for one example,why are the monkies of today still monkies?And it is just silly sounding (to me,this is just MY opinion,even though I had to read all about evolution) that the scientists of today believe that all things and the universe changed from something else.it had to start somewhere.....someone HAD to create
the life.*sigh

well,I suppose the scientists don't want to base their all-around thoughts on one religion's
'theory'.Well,it's a free country;we can think as we wish,correct?

~Giroth