12-16-2010, 11:54 PM | #781 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/can...586/story.html ""It was his wish to be buried there," he said. "He was very well-liked in the community. He was very intelligent and he spoke quite a few languages. He also spoke Turkish. They called him 'The Professor' there."" Nothing like having lesser beings buried by special permission to upset your prayers!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 12-16-2010 at 11:56 PM. Reason: spacing |
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12-17-2010, 01:50 PM | #782 |
Entmoot Attorney-General,
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Nobody likes religious violence. But Turkey is far from being anything like Iraq.
Just to put the last part of the article in some kind of perspective; The article suggests that in the last four years, in a country of more than 70 million inhabitants, two Catholic priests and two Protestant Bible publishers have been murdered. That's four people. I wonder how many imams or muslims that have been murdered during the same period in the US, out of religious hatred?
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12-17-2010, 02:41 PM | #783 |
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Or how many times Mosques have been victims of arson in this country such as the one that struck the Salman Alfarisi Islamic Center in Corvallis, Oregon just a few days after it was discovered foiled Christmas bomber Mohamed Osman Mohamud worshiped there a few times. Of course the real irony is that the tip to the FBI that got Mohamud caught came from an islamic source... I wonder why Oregon State University, Mohamud's school, wasnt targeted. After all he spent a lot more time there than he did at the mosque...
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Last edited by Insidious Rex : 12-17-2010 at 02:42 PM. |
12-19-2010, 11:50 AM | #784 | ||||
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In other cases bigots dont want people of other religions in their city: Quote:
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Funnily, you missed all of these stories and many more- it's almost as if you don't care in the least about religious tolerance, and, having the multi-kulti thread shut down for the same reason, you are just digging up additional posts for the "inked hates Muslims" category.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill Last edited by GrayMouser : 12-19-2010 at 11:51 AM. |
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12-24-2010, 10:04 AM | #785 |
Elf Lord
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I really don't hate Muslims, GM. I just happen to have a broad field for observing behaviours. A global field. My prior post about the Canadian forced exhumation and re-burial should have alerted you to the facts that Christians in Islamic countries live under dhimmi law and its consequences. The fact that Muslims are under instruction to walk at least 3 steps in any funeral procession they encounter to mark solidarity with all humanity seems to have been lost in this particular event.
"Funnily, you missed all of these stories and many more- it's almost as if you don't care in the least about religious tolerance, and, having the multi-kulti thread shut down for the same reason, you are just digging up additional posts for the "inked hates Muslims" category." I really don't think I had the multicultural thread shut down. First, I am not ADMIN. Second, There are ten posts after my last one before it was closed. Third, I resuscitated this thread which had lain dormant for 3 years. Jonathan, FYI on the numbers killed: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...652533152.html This illustrates the law of unintended consequences very explicitly. There is no doubt that the Christians were safer under Sadaam Hussein's dictatorship. The Kurds, not so much.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
12-30-2010, 04:53 PM | #786 |
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Political concerns in Britain are like those in France? A rise in populism? Islamisation?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/t...amisation.html And, here in the USA, we have the ultimate recognition: consumer group! "American Muslims seeking more acknowledgment in the marketplace argue that businesses have more to gain than lose by reaching out to the community. "We are not saying, `Support us,'" said Faisal Masood, a graduate of the University of Illinois, Chicago, and management consultant. "But we want them to understand what our values are." Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...#ixzz19d9K9ilw
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
12-31-2010, 02:33 AM | #787 | ||
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Administrative Notice
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Lets be very clear, if anyone else is thinking along the same lines that there is a "person" to blame. Inked was NOT the "reason" for the thread being shut down. There were many participants involved, every culprit of which has also participated in every other political thread. To assume that any one person involved carries more blame than any other person involved is not true. |
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12-31-2010, 04:39 AM | #788 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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In many parts of central Asia, including those still under Russian control, Islam is a majority religion. In some of the more eastern areas, Buddhism is. In fact, a notable Buddhist incorruptible was before his death the head of Russian Buddhists. Now, obviously, Russian Orthodoxy takes pretty significant precedence over the other recognized traditional religions. However, it seems to me that the JW's are closer to "same religion as" the ROC than are the Buddhists, Jews, and Muslims who are already recognized in the same country. I'm not sure it's really a matter of "people of other religions", as you suggest. I think what it has more to do with is people who are perceived (whether acknowledged or no) as basically "same-religion", but wrong-headed about it. I spent several years in nondenominational Christian circles in Russia, so I have some degree of first hand knowledge here. The whole "cult" moniker usually means (however people define it), not that you are a different religion from the person using the term, but that you are distorting the religion of the person using the term. For this reason, you often actually see more prejudice against Protestants of the lower-church varieties in Russia (there is some against Catholics, and doubtless also some against Anglicans, Lutherans, etc., but less than against evangelicals, nondenoms, etc. Baptists are actually seen as a fairly significant cultural threat in Russia) than there is against people who are truly of other religions, from what I have seen.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 12-31-2010 at 04:44 AM. |
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01-10-2011, 02:07 AM | #789 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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This brought tears to my eyes: http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsCont...ss,-servi.aspx
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01-10-2011, 03:55 AM | #790 |
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In the wake of the suicide bomberr blowing himself to bits in the very centre of Stockholm, I've often thought about the reason why sensible muslims do go out in force and show their disgust and rightous anger of being collectively blamed for these insane acts. Are they afraid or do they secretly agree with the concept of killing off all "infidels"?
There are more than a quarter million muslims in Sweden. Think of the enourmous impact a national gathering of protest of 350 000 people would have on the general view on Islam and suiced bombers. I think the ripples of this pebble would spread all over the world until the minority of the insane and religiously misguided would cease to be. What do you think? |
01-10-2011, 06:56 AM | #791 |
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I have thought about that too, but I ultimatedly think it is never as simple as that.
For instance, I don't feel the urge to make a public denouncement when somebody of my religion or culture does something repulsive or insanely stupid. Then I can't expect others to do the same. Also there are vast differences in customs, culture and even religious beliefs within the islam. Ordinary muslims may not even consider these bombers to be of their religion. Besides violence by islamitic terrorists isn't only targetted at non-muslims, sometimes it is also geared at other islamitic factions, just because they have other religious ideas. I can understand ordinary muslims not wanting to make a target of themselves. Also, if I recall correctly, islam has no structure of religious leaders such as christianity. Every imam is pretty much the same level as the other. If there was to be a protest, specifically from the muslim community, then it would have to start at grass-root level, and it's not very easy to do that.
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01-10-2011, 06:58 AM | #792 | |
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01-10-2011, 07:52 AM | #793 | |
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he wasn't part of any larger organisation, but i might be wrong. it's just interesting to see that without knowing those facts about this guy, people never hesitated to call him a terrorist, and his act an act of terrorism. i so far haven't seen anyone call the (white, non-muslim) guy who shot senator giffords and several other people a terrorist. if he had been an american muslim arab, would the reaction have been the same? to me, it seems that lately (after 2001), in the definition for the word 'terrorist', 'muslim' has been a given. terror of course isn't something that only muslims cause or are behind, now or ever. still, the term seems to be too easily used to any criminal act a muslim carries out (in the west), but never to the criminal acts of anyone else. what do you think?
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01-10-2011, 04:41 PM | #794 |
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It might be that the terms arab, muslim and terrorist are bunched together in one evil denomination, but have the sensible muslims done anything to distance themselves from these lunatics who seek to defame Islam.
There was a infinitesimal trickle of Swedish muslims who protested against this act of a complete and utter maniac. A trickle mind you. Are they afraid of their "fellow" believers? Are the sunni scared of the Shiit or vice versa. I still think that all muslims, who do not want to be, as I said, collectively blamed, for what a violently deranged, religiously misguided group of lunatics do, should take a stand, be they sunni or shiit, and show an utter determination to protest and fight these maniacs and their incessant attempts to murder themselves, and, indiscriminately, innocent bystanders, whether they be of a faction of Islam or any other creed. Is that too much to ask? If Americans began attacking other Americans with the sole purpose of killing as many of their countrymen as they possibly could that would be considered acts of terrorism. The wholesale murders of pupils by insane gunmen, that time and again, occur in the USA, could perhaps also be called terrorism. The IRA killed British troops and Irish Protestants and that was considered terrorism. But, did they ever blow themselves to bits? Was their purpose to kill themselves, as well their victims? That is the marked difference between Islam and the other creeds. Christians, Jews and Hindi would never even think of doing any such thing. In fact, it is a major sin. Should we merely just say: We cant do anything about it, so forget any notion that you have to the contrary. Last edited by Grey_Wolf : 01-10-2011 at 04:42 PM. |
01-10-2011, 04:52 PM | #795 | ||
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Quote:
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See link.
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01-10-2011, 05:05 PM | #796 |
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Thanks, Gwai! Then perhaps, to a degree, it has already begun.
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01-10-2011, 05:38 PM | #797 | |
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i guess it's not fair enough to assume that people will be able to be reasonable and realize that those completely normal citizens, who happen to believe in another version of the same god, have nothing at all to do with what the extremists do. extremists use certain beliefs, ideas for their own purpose and turn them into something they're not. why is it up to the people whose ideas have been stolen to stand up and defend themselves? who are we to accuse them? it is easy, far too easy, to fall for the picture western media paints of arabs and muslims; to only see the acts by extremists and fundamentalists and not see what everyday arabs and muslims do. rarely, we get something like the case that Gwai brought up, reported in the media. and it's usually not main-stream media either. without digging a bit deeper, we have to understand that the information we get is highly biased, and if there's something in there we really don't understand, it's probably due to the lack of sufficient information or us being naive. i don't really see why the suicide part of the attacks are important enough to say that 'only muslims do this'. there are acts of terrorism by christians, jews and hindus that muslims might consider a sin. to only mention a few acts of terrorism by christians or christian terrorist groups, we have the ku klux klan, the st. bartholomew's day massacre, the christian national liberation front of tripura and the sabra and shatila massacre in lebanon, where palestinian muslims were massacred by lebanese christians while under the supervision of the israeli army. and that's just a few. so i wouldn't try to separate what the extremist muslims are doing too much from what other extremist religious people are and have been up to. of course we shouldn't just stand idly by, but simplifying the world into black and white and not understanding the background or the actual reasons (poor mental health, anyone? desperation due to living under occupation all your life, anyone?) behind these acts of 'terrorism' is the most counter-productive thing to do.
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01-10-2011, 06:21 PM | #798 |
Elf Lord
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Sorry for being a bit naive and uninformed. You are quite right. Christians arent blameless, neither are any other creed. Just as you mentioned the northern army massacres of hugenots.
And, yes, the propaganda of the media does have a share in the blame of the influence on people's views about muslims. And mass-protests would probably not work anyway, so in this you are quite correct too. Too many conflicting emotions and cultural differenses. Last edited by Grey_Wolf : 01-10-2011 at 06:23 PM. |
01-21-2011, 09:16 AM | #799 |
Elf Lord
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Pakistan and its laws ...
http://www.weeklystandard.com/articl...an_533702.html Do note in the lead paragraph the notations of the disproportionate application. I seem to recall an European encounter with this sort of "blasphemy" which involved a cartoon.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
01-31-2011, 09:32 AM | #800 |
Elf Lord
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Remember the Ground Zero Mosque controversies?
I believe they are back. The New York Post had this article 1-30-11. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/g...lADqlz8Et5CuTP Not really unexpected since it is a Muslim project and they do have definite beliefs. Note the religious remarks about people who reject Islam, in addition to the more inflammatory remarks about homosexual behavior.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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