09-09-2002, 03:39 PM | #61 | |||
the Shrike
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Re: Did't Sauron know
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Sauron could not conceive that the free peoples would want to destroy the ring; that is why he didn't work that into the equation. He could not get his head around the concept that they did not want to use the power of the ring to dominate over the enemy. Quote:
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09-09-2002, 04:04 PM | #62 | |||
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Re: Did't Sauron know
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09-09-2002, 08:47 PM | #63 |
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<From the first qoute it also seems clear to me that Sauron and the One Ring is one, and not as two dissident parts as have been suggested.>
Here's an interesting side light. There were no more artifacts, no more cities to be built in the lands of Men. And the Elves who understood that Arda still possessed the Morgoth-element might be reluctant to use it again on the scale of creating Rings of Power. They had learned through many bitter lessons what the price of working such magic would be. The source of power for the rings was quite possibly the power Melkor invested into Arda. The elves learned to tap into this power from Sauron. Think of what these rings were meant to do. Stop time? Preserve entire regions? Doesn't sound like any power short of something "godlike". Sauron may well have had to "invest" a good part of himself in creating the one ring (just as the elven smiths likely had to do) but it was indeed an investment, that paid handsome dividends in the amount of power he could reap from the remnants his old boss left behind. The fact that all of the other rings were touched by Sauron, means a likely method of his exerting control over the user's was to invest an additional small part of his power into each of the nine and the seven. Nothing like the one however. Just enough to taint them. The three were never tainted, never touched, and never sullied, but that doesn't mean that they were hidden. They all ran of the same batttery, so to speak. But since they weren't tainted, the users couldn't be controlled. They couldn't be dominated. The link that Sauron forged to Morgoth's power must have been bound up in the ruling ring however. Which might be why he had to invest possibly the major portion of his power in it. Think of it not as the battery, but the battery terminal. When it was destroyed, the power ceased to flow to the other rings. Sauron isn't the ring however. The power he invested in it was his. But the ring was in contact with a far greater power. Perhaps more than one.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
09-09-2002, 10:51 PM | #64 |
Hobbit
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did sauron know
I do not believe that the Elves needed a ring to slow down years. They lived until they tired of life or were killed. So time was not a issue, protection was and I agree those rings had power. Sauron knew where two of the rings went. He knew Gil-galad had one and Galadriel the other. If he had known that Gil-galad had two he might have risked all to get them. I do not believe he had power over the rings. And since he had no part in crerating them they would not have the same effect the nine had on men. The fact that Gil-gald gave both rings away at least poses the theory that if they lost to Sauron these rings would still provide safty and power to the foes of Sauron. Melkor is a different story. I watched a program on C.S. Lewis this weekend and I had no idea he was such a relegious person. It is interesting to see how different his books are from Tolkien's, especially considering that Tolkien often ran his stuff by Lewis. The Valor in my opnion were pretty petty. They had been fighting with Melkor from the beginning but when the Noldor got their backs up they were thrown to the wolves. Where Aslan was always saving the day the Valor let the Noldor down over and over again. So I do not believe that Sauron needed Melkor for anything. Gandalf in his former self feared Sauron, and did not want to go to Middle-earth.
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09-09-2002, 11:24 PM | #65 | |
the Shrike
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Re: did sauron know
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09-10-2002, 03:54 AM | #66 |
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What BoP said basically. The elves used the rings to preserve their realms not their own lives.
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09-10-2002, 12:18 PM | #67 | |
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Quote:
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... Last edited by Blackheart : 09-10-2002 at 12:19 PM. |
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09-10-2002, 05:24 PM | #68 |
the Shrike
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Might I suggest a swift smack around the head?
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09-10-2002, 08:04 PM | #69 |
Hobbit
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didn't Sauron know.
Sauron by the third age was on the verge of controlling the middle-earth., something Melkor never did. The fact that Gandalf/Olorin when Manwe wanted to send him to middle=earth tried to decline, because he feared Sauron, showed the power he had.
It took the intervention of the Valor to get rid of Melkor, and then they withdrew from the world. So lacking another equal to deal with, I repeat Sauron had no need of Melkor in the third age.
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09-10-2002, 09:29 PM | #70 |
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09-11-2002, 12:34 PM | #71 | |||
Elf Lord
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Re: didn't Sauron know.
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Sauron never did manage a major crushing defeat on the west. Everytime he tried he was repulsed. And this was during the second age, when he had the ring, and was arguably more powerful than he ever was during the third age. The only reason he would have succedded in the third age was the decadance (in the original sense- not the modern sense) of his enemies. Quote:
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But that certainly doesn't mean that he was above tapping the power Melkor invested in Arda. Indeed without it, he would have been hard pressed to carve out any sort of empire. Even when he was near the height of his power, he was cowed by a bunch of pantywaist Numenorians in boats.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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