Origins, and Implications of Origins

[rohirrim TR]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

I thought this thread was going to be to talk about the origins of our souls, of the essence of what it means to be a human being, not our actual physical origins. Well, colour me stupid, guess I was wrong. You guys have fun.

the problem you see if we are discussing where are souls came from then the christian POV of course is going to mention God's creation etc.
Now if we are talking what defines a human being the christian is going to point you to the verse in genesis where it says man was created in Gods image.
this type of discussion involving the soul and humanity in general would be impossibe for someone with christian world view to not mention God or their beliefs in such, i'm sure you understand this when some one is a christian God is directly involved with their views on such a subject.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Well then thats basically meaningless to me because my thoughts about human origins dont connect to my "daily behavior and choices". At least not that Im aware of.

Well, I think they do, and I think I can demonstrate that, if you want to hang around and give it a shot.

So then is this just about religious concepts of origins then? or philosophical concepts?

It's about ANY type of concept of origins. It's ENTIRELY open to ANY option. It's what is YOUR personal belief about how you got here? Now, given that belief, what premises can be drawn (if any) that affect your daily behavior? Is that a logical premise, or an illogical one? etc. etc.

[Snowdog]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

thank you - I appreciate your kind thought - that was a sweet gesture

And I didn't mean that about starting a thread on your own in a mean way - I really mean that if you do not want a Christian POV on your thread, then please note that in your opening post, and I'll stay out of your thread with no hard feelings.

I"m just a passionate person, with a lot of thoughts, and I guess my posts overwhelm threads sometimes

Are you married to Tuor over on Minas Tirith?
Why! Oh Why do so many Christians do this? Some of you Evolutionists do it too, and it really sux.

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Well, given that evolution and creation are included in the set of possible origin beliefs, we can't totally keep them out of the thread, but what I DO want to keep out is evidence discussions.

As I said, I don't give a RIP about how valid your premise is; I'm interested in the logical deductions that can be made from the premise.

Well, excuse me for posting here. I guess I should have known better.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

It's about ANY type of concept of origins. It's ENTIRELY open to ANY option. It's what is YOUR personal belief about how you got here? Now, given that belief, what premises can be drawn (if any) that affect your daily behavior? Is that a logical premise, or an illogical one? etc. etc.

I got here because my mom gave birth to me. And we got here as a species because we evolved from hominids from Africa. How life on earth began? We dont know yet. So now are you going to tell me how these three sentences effect my "daily behavior and choices"? Im guessing this relates to that Jeffry Dhamar thing and how not being religious can lead to those kinds of actions?

[Rían]

Lotesse - go ahead and start a thread on that, if you would like On this thread, I'm afraid that I DO, definitely, want to talk logical deductions and analysis, so it sounds like you wouldn't care for it, which is fine! We're all individuals, as brownie pointed out, and we like different things.

brownie - yeah, I wrote that line in a tiff, then I almost took it out, but then people have complained about threads being taken over by Christians before, and if Christians are having a lot of posts, then it simply means that they're thinking and discussing a lot, so I left it in more as a thought-provoker to those who complain. It doesn't mean that others are NOT thinking - I guess it just means that Christians are posting more. Or maybe that their posts are longer, or something - I don't know. It's not like non-Christians are being prevented from posting! I mean, you and Gaffer and Rexy were posting in the discussion, and I was really enjoying your posts, yet I don't hear complaints about posts from atheists/agnostics If someone want to say something, then SAY it! If someone doesn't, then don't complain about others who DO want to say things! What's wrong with that?

I don't think it's "us vs. them", either, until I read posts complaining about a specific group of people posting in threads; then how else can I interpret it? But I don't want to make Entmoot an unpleasant place because of my posts, so what should I do? Cut back on my posts? But there's so many interesting posts from other people that I love to respond to ... so what do I do?

I truly don't know how to deal with this. I can understand how my posts can be annoying to a person of another worldview, but I have no problem with them posting their thoughts at ALL. I'm an individual with thoughts, like everyone else. I love to hear other people's thoughts, too, even if they're totally opposite from mine. And I love to challenge people to analyze their deductions.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

Are you married to Tuor over on Minas Tirith?
Why! Oh Why do so many Christians do this? Some of you Evolutionists do it too, and it really sux.

I don't understand

Well, excuse me for posting here. I guess I should have known better.

I don't understand this, either
What I meant is that the thread topic is not about the validity of a person's belief on origins; it's about where they go from there.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

What I meant is that the thread topic is not about the validity of a person's belief on origins; it's about where they go from there.

and... to get back on topic... my theory is that you are putting the cart before the horse... the morality a person has already arrived at through life experience determines what belief in origins one chooses... or how one interprets those beliefs

this explains why one agnostic can be a killer and another a good person... or one christian a killer and another a good person

beliefs, and interpretations of them, are a result of one's morality... not the other way around

[Rían]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

and... to get back on topic...

(Thank you!!)

...my theory is that you are putting the cart before the horse... the morality a person has already arrived at through life experience determines what belief in origins one chooses... or how one interprets those beliefs

But don't kids hear from their parents, "it's not RIGHT to do that, little Samwise!" IOW, don't parents (and others) provide subjective analyses of how to handle experiences?

[Snowdog]

I didn't think you would understand Rian. I mean turning a discussion into a Christian vs evolution battle. You say

people have complained about threads being taken over by Christians before, and if Christians are having a lot of posts, then it simply means that they're thinking and discussing a lot, so I left it in more as a thought-provoker to those who complain. It doesn't mean that others are NOT thinking - I guess it just means that Christians are posting more.

but miss the point that it always seems to be the same handful of folk ON BOTH SIDES OF THE EVOLUTION/CREATION "debate". People on both sides of this belief front can articulate their thoughts on questions of origin and where they're going and such without barbing each other. Take BJ's last post.. very well done.

Anyway, have at it. I heard the first post has been edited it I feared it was a sort of bait & switch tactic. I see that is not. So why are you comparing who on what side posts more or not? Anyway, I said all I need to say here.

Cheers all.
__________________________________________________ _______

Edit again after lockdown... there was too much cross-posting here yesterday, and much came across bad. There was miscommunication, and I have apologized to Rian by PM for any perceived bismirching of her character.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

I got here because my mom gave birth to me. And we got here as a species because we evolved from hominids from Africa. How life on earth began? We dont know yet. So now are you going to tell me how these three sentences effect my "daily behavior and choices"?

Well, I"m going to give my opinion and try to support it, and listen to your opinion and how you support it, etc.

Im guessing this relates to that Jeffry Dhamar thing and how not being religious can lead to those kinds of actions?

It relates to my examples, yes, but not only in the way you said; obviously, people that are "religious" kill, too!

And I'd like to repeat that I don't think non-"religious" people are amoral at ALL!!! As I said before, I know non-religious people that I would trust my kids with, and religious people that I wouldn't.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

I see since the first post has been edited it really was a sort of bait & switch tactic.

That, Snowdog, is a total lie. I'm sorry to hear such an accusation from you. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but if it is a false accusation against my character (like that was), I'll respond to it. And that is an entirely false accusation.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

beliefs, and interpretations of them, are a result of one's morality... not the other way around

Could you please elaborate on this? I don't quite understand.

How can your morality decide your beliefs? Both you and I do NOT like to kill, we BOTH like to be kind to others, yet we have very different beliefs.

[Spock]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

.LOGICAL analysis, as in, given this premise, is this a valid deduction?

Oh you won't get anywhere thinking like that.

One and all you've gone splitting hairs so much that nothing resembles anything. If you start a thread for every opinion, there isn't enough bandwidth in the universe to hold it all.

FOCUS ON THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD.

[Lotesse]

(quote from Rian,"That, Snowdog, is a total lie, "etcetera)

How can it be a total lie? I just saw it, just now! You've edited in (out of context, I might add) into your thread-opening statement, something that snowdog JUST SAID like 2 posts ago, and made him out to look like an a-hole by doing so. Personally, I think that's not very nice, Rian. Why did you do that?

edit- O.k., o.k., I went back & re-read it , and I see now it was your response to something he said that you edited into your first post, but it STILL looks like you're tryna make him out to look like an a-hole. I don't know. I've had it with all this crap, I'm outta here. have fun, you all. Meh.

[Rían]

wow, there are some MAJOR misunderstandings going on - let's slow down!

Snowdog posted exactly what I quoted, which sure seems to me to be an accusation that I was dishonest about the thread topic by doing a bait-and-switch thing. This is a total lie - I was never dishonest about the thread topic. Apparently I was just unclear, as IRex pointed out, and I took IRex's suggestion and edited my first post to clear things up.

I guess while I was writing my post, Snowdog edited his post to what it currently is (see the edit note at the bottom of his post).

[Lotesse]

...and we just now cross-posted - i added a little on the bottom of my post right above your last one - anyway, gotta go...

[Spock]

This Thread Has Gotten Too Emotional And Tempers Are Flaring

Every Other Post

This Thread Will Be Closed For 24hrs To Let People Cool Down

Please Take The Time To Relax, Rethink, And Readjust Your

Attitude Towards Your Fellow Mooters.

[Spock]

I am opening the topic as promised.

It will be monitored for those things that caused it to be shut down.

Please remember that no one on this board is a Deity and no one speaks with the mouth of a Deity although a few have posted in this manner.

Respect each others viewpoint.

Future violation will cause this topic to be closed permanently.

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"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
Marcus Aurelius

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Could you please elaborate on this? I don't quite understand.

How can your morality decide your beliefs? Both you and I do NOT like to kill, we BOTH like to be kind to others, yet we have very different beliefs.

life experience (including our parents, who typically use real life examples to teach their children) is where we get our morals... the "origin stuff" doesn't really hit home 'till at least the teen years

[Tessar]

*bops Loteese and Rohirrim TR on their heads with his Musical Staff*

Back on topic!