Political philosophy

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Does anyone really think that we should go around dealing out life and death?

Some people obviously think so, judging by the advocates of capital punishment. Usually the same people who advocate pro-life for some reason...

[emplynx]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
All terminations have to done at 3 months along, if at all possible, when it is no larger than a jellybean.

"terminations" What a heartless word for the ruthless murder of a human being who has no choice on the matter.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by emplynx

"terminations" What a heartless word for the ruthless murder of a human being who has no choice on the matter.

Being subjective again, Emplynx? Why does that not surprise me?

Fine.

Abortions, then. "Ruthless murder". Yes. You've got me. I advocate ruthless murder of little human beings. Oh please.

[afro-elf]

i think all men should shut the !@#$ up about abortion.

men don't have to carry the child

Wayfarer you did call it right that was a BS slippery slope.

The adopation issue is BS there doesn't seem like there is a shortage of childern in adopation agencies

dude sleeping around and getting drunk and pregnant is a BS image

everyone who thinks adoption is the answer so be legal bound to support this belief as soon as they turn 18. be they single, m,f, or whatever

and each year take on a new kid until all adoptions are no longer necessary

[afro-elf]

why is it pro-lifers tend to be the one who support the death sentence

pro choice tend to support animal rights

pro-lifers tend to favor war

pro-choice peace

[Earniel]

No offence, but why is it that whenever a abortus-debate begins, the majority against it seems to be male? Men have it so much easier. They can mess around all they like and hardly care about the consequences but when a woman gets pregnant they often scream crime and murder.

There is war all over the world and it often does much worse things than the picture you showed us, emplynx. Half of the world is starving. People judge over life and death every day and by much worse standards. But some people seem to accept that much more than abortion. What a twisted world we live in.

[afro-elf]

'I was stupid, got drunk, and now I'm pregnant. !'

well i guess this applies to pro lifers mothers also

[BeardofPants]

Just to reiterate Earniel's point.

It's okay to kill someone for a heinous crime?

It's okay to kill millions of people in Afghanistan, just because they were under the yoke of the Taliban?

It's okay to starve the people trapped within the borders of Afghanistan in the middle of winter because of the tightening of the boundaries?

It's okay to wage war on countries with lesser weapons than the US in the name of democracy?

It's alright to slaughter newly born calves so that we can make cheese?

It's alright to kill in the name of Jesus?

It's alright to slowly kill the earth with, cars, bombs and pollution, and MORE carbon units?

BUT: It's not okay to give the women a choice on whether or not to abort a child she doesn't want?

A-E has said it succinctly enough. You're bloody men! You can leave anytime you freaking want. But, the woman is bound to her pregnancy. Whether she keeps it or not. If she chooses adoption, or abortion, she has to bear the scars for the rest of her life. If she chooses to keep it, and doesn't want it, she has to live with her resentment for the rest of her life.

Men? Pah! They can walk away. And quite often do. Don't presume to know best when it comes to the women's body, and her choices.

[Lizra]

All the more reason to use birth control (and I don't mean abortion!) Don't put yourself in the position of having to cope with an unwanted pregnancy. It would be horrible to go the rest of your life knowing you killed your own child. I've heard it hurts like hell too. It is worth the time, trouble and expense to protect yourself at all times from conceiving a child you do not want. I can't call it a choice. It's a choice that shouldn't be there. In the case of rape, I couldn't kill an unborn baby, even though I wouldn't want it. In the US, there is a shortage of adoptable babies. In our local paper, there are ads daily, from families seeking to adopt unwanted babies, it's so sad! I can't do much about that long list of evils BoP, but I can control what I do with my own body. Practice abstinence or use birth control (we're so lucky to have this option!), and let's get rid of abortion!

[afro-elf]

i have never heard anyone say they are PRO abortion .

I have never heard anyone say they are for it as birth control


its just that the choice should be there for WHATEVER reason

it not like ALL these women were irresponisble

mistakes can happen for MANY reasons

[Lizra]

Well AE, All I know is my own experience. The women I know who had abortions weren't using birth control in any serious manner, They veiwed the abortion as birth control. One woman went so far as to have two! I'm not good at getting on the soapbox with alot of grand talk, just my commen sense seems to serve me well. I'm sure there are exceptional circumstances, but that's not what I'm talking about. That's just how I feel. I respect your difference of opinion, but I just want young ladies to use birth control very seriously.

[FrodoFriend]

Think I'll just throw in my two cents:

First of all, on the original topic of this thread, I consider myself a liberal in nearly all cases.

Secondly, on abortion:

I personally could never kill anyone. Even if I somehow got pregnant now or were raped, I couldn't kill the baby. To me, killing is repulsive - I can't even stand to take part in killing animals. The killing in Afghanistan is repulsive. The death penalty is extremely repulsive. For myself, I could never live with killing a child, my own child, no matter how it was conceived.

HOWEVER, my opinions are not everyone's. Whether or not killing a fetus is right or wrong, it's not a choice anyone else can make for a pregnant woman. We DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to tell any woman what to do with her body. If she wants to abort, well, I may not agree, but that's her right; the child is coming out of her own body. She can choose how she will, and may her conscience forgive her.

And guys . . . no offense, but I hate it when guys judge in this matter. You can not possibly understand what it's like to be able to have children. This is not a matter for you to judge.

[afro-elf]

I personally could never kill anyone

I disagree. I feel that amyone who does NOT kill someone under CERTAIN circumstances is not a human being.


I find that people say the above quote BUT if you are a parent and some one was trying to kill your child and you just stand by and do nothing because you are a peace lover is absurd

I believe that most people can kill given the right circumstances


Lizra I agree birth control should be used HOWEVER the choice should still be there

[azalea]

I am also against the death penalty, I am a vegetarian (athough I do hold human life as more sacred, I am against the breeding of animals to be raised in a little cell and then slaughtered for food), and I am anti-war, but I do think that defending yourself (or others) through the use of force is a necessary evil.

And as far as there being a choice, certainly everyone has control over her own body, but using that control to take the life of another is questionable to me. Also, the abortion debate really is about the government condoning abortion, with no limits.
I can understand abortions in the case of incest or if the life of the mother is at risk because of medical complications in the pregnancy, and also possibly in case of a severe defect found in the fetus (brain missing). That is where pro choice makes sense. But pro abortion people want abortion available to anyone who walks in, no matter what the circumstance. There has been a big debate about late term and partial birth abortions here, and I don't want to be graphic, but the lawmakers must use common sense when drafting laws. I support strict guidelines concerning abortion, rather than making it available as an "option" to anyone.

[BeardofPants]

I have NEVER met anyone who has been pro-abortion. Pro-choice, yes. Pro-abortion, no. Anyone who claims to be pro-abortion, is in my book, as bad as the pro-lifer. A decision for one woman, might be completely wrong for another. That is why I feel it should always come down to the choices of the mother; so she can choose what is right for her, in her circumstances. It's about CHOICE, not swinging one way or the other.

[Andúril]

Does anyone have thoughts on the stages of foetal development? I am mainly concerned with the point in the development where we call the clump of cells "human".

[Elvellon]

I’m curious, if most pro-life people seem to be able to accept that a person whose life depends of life support machinery, and whose higher mental functions are lost is effectively dead (but since the body is still alive all this means is that what makes someone human is dead), then how can they say that a embryo whose higher life functions have yet to start is already truly human?

[afro-elf]

"terminations" What a heartless word for the ruthless murder of a human being who has no choice on the matter.

sorta like the christian church in the dark ages until the renaisance

[Cirdan]

List of people who should shut up about abortion.

1.) Men

2.) People who haven't adopted a child.

3.) People who don't pay taxes to support unwanted children.

Not everyone has access to birth control. Not everyone is intelligent enough to think life through. People make mistakes. Abortion is sad, but not as sad as the child in the orphage that doesn't find a home. Not as sad as the crack-addicted baby. Not as sad as the abused child. If it were a perfect world we wouldn't need abortion.

Political philosophy: If they want to be in power they probably are scum.

[azalea]

Originally posted by Elvellon
I’m curious, if most pro-life people seem to be able to accept that a person whose life depends of life support machinery, and whose higher mental functions are lost is effectively dead (but since the body is still alive all this means is that what makes someone human is dead), then how can they say that a embryo whose higher life functions have yet to start is already truly human?

They are both human. I don't like the idea of people being kept alive by artificial means if there is no chance of survival at some point when taken off of life support. That person has lived and something happened to make that person die. An embryo is human, and unless it is deliberately aborted would most likely become a "funtional" human.
Do you think life then starts once a fetus is able to live on it's own rather than on life support? There are a lot of parents of children who were born prematurely who might disagree with you, as their healthy children depended on life support to grow and become what they are today. I think they thought of their baby as a living human even though the baby needed a machine to breathe.
At what point do YOU believe "life" begins?