02-10-2004, 10:59 PM | #61 | |
the Shrike
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02-11-2004, 12:08 AM | #62 |
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For those of you who said I was 'sick' for saying this guy should be hanged from the highest tree... go stuff yourselves. Do you really think I would hang this guy? No, I wouldn't take someone's life like that. Is the death penalty a deterent? No, it's proven that it's not. Is it more expensive to put this bastard in prison for the rest of his life? No, probably not.
The death penalty really only serves to ... a) remove one truely repulsive being off the face of the earth, and b) give the public a sense of security that this person will never find another 11 year old girl and do the things to the next girl that he did to this one. |
02-11-2004, 05:28 AM | #63 |
Elf Lord
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So, those of you who agree with the death penalty, how do you feel about putting innocent people to death?
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02-11-2004, 05:40 AM | #64 | ||
The Dude
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as for the cost of things i think it would become disgusting when we resorted to the death penalty just to save a few dollars, i think that evaluating human life in terms of money is wrong.
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02-11-2004, 08:52 AM | #65 | |||
Lady of Letters
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IIRC, the majority of Britons approve of the death penalty too. Makes no difference to me - I still think it's just plain wrong. Quote:
*and since we need to clarify these things ad inifinitum now, I mean this happens everywhere in the world
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02-11-2004, 10:37 AM | #66 | |
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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02-11-2004, 10:42 AM | #67 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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02-11-2004, 10:49 AM | #68 | |
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Also - any way you look at the demographics, the Death Penalty is applied unfairly. Look at convictions for the same crime, and a black person is far more likely to receive the death penalty than a white person. Further, our criminal justice system has other flaws. Not just attorneys, but even lab technicians are valued by the conviction rates they achieve. We had a recent case where a lab technician had not disclosed all information gathered on numbers of cases over the years - to increase conviction rates on their cases. Then there's the way police interrogation is done at times - not always, but in some cases, confessions are still beaten out of young - often minority - men. Lawyers who with-hold evidence that could clear a person they're trying to convict - no penalty. Defendants cheated in this way - sometimes may lose their lives. We are imperfect people and are not capable of making perfect judgements or creating a perfect criminal justice system. Therefore, I think we need to with-hold ultimate punishment. OTOH, I could see it for some of the worst offenders where there's really no doubt about guilt. I'm so glad Tim McVeigh was no longer among the living on September 11, 2001. Our more irresponsible media would have converged on him like buzzards - and his commentary would have been the LAST thing our country needed at that time. Last edited by Valandil : 02-11-2004 at 10:52 AM. |
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02-11-2004, 10:54 AM | #69 | |
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'Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!' - And those were the words that Elendil spoke when he came up out of the Sea on the wings of the wind: 'Out of the Great Sea to Middle-earth I am come. In this place will I abide, and my heirs, unto the ending of the world.' 'Then Tuor arrayed himself in the hauberk, and set the helm upon his head, and he girt himself with the sword; black were sheath and belt with clasps of silver. Thus armed he went forth from Turgon's hall, and stood upon the high terraces of Taras in the red light of the sun. None were there to see him, as he gazed westward, gleaming in silver and gold, and he knew not that in that hour he appeared as one of the Mighty of the West, and fit to be father of the kings of the Kings of Men beyond the Sea, as it was indeed his doom to be; but in the taking of those arms a change came upon Tuor son of Huor, and his heart grew great within him. And as he stepped down from the doors the swans did him reverence, and plucking each a great feather from their wings they proffered them to him, laying their long necks upon the stone before his feet; and he took the seven feathers and set them in the crest of his helm, and straightway the swans arose and flew north in the sunset, and Tuor saw them no more.' -Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin "Oh. Forgive me, fairest of all males of Entmoot...Back down, all ye other wannabe fairest males! Dunedain is the fairest!" --Linaewen |
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02-11-2004, 11:00 AM | #70 | |
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What about all the other points I made? Those of us who are white, we mostly don't have to think much about this. For many who are black, ( a much higher percentage of those around them are affected by our criminal justice system, including the death penalty) - with family members, friends, etc. (EDIT: to attempt to clarify the portion of my statement now in parenthises - yes, 'stun' - we do often need to clarify ad infinitum around here, don't we? Guess that's why the Ents got so long-winded! ) Last edited by Valandil : 02-11-2004 at 11:21 AM. |
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02-11-2004, 11:31 AM | #71 | ||||||
Queen of Nargothrond
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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02-11-2004, 11:47 AM | #72 | |
Elf Lord
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* agrees with sun-star *
Isn't justice supposed to be blind, which means impassive, unemotional. Quote:
Given that biases exist within the system, and we seem to be in agreement that no system is perfect, having the death penalty makes it impossible to set things straight further down the line. BTW, I don't see how OJ Simpson claiming racial prejudice has anything at all to do with how black men are more likely to get the death penalty than white men. |
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02-11-2004, 11:52 AM | #73 |
Queen of Nargothrond
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Since minority injustice in the justice system was brought up, the O.J. Simpson case I used as just one example of how that isn't always the way it happens.
Money may also buy a gulty person's freedom which I believe was probably a big factor in that case.
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
02-11-2004, 11:56 AM | #74 | ||||||
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I will say though, that in a sense I do feel sorry for Tim McVeigh. He was no demon - he was a man, and he did an awful thing for which the penalty he received was less than just desserts could have possibly been. My only wish for him would be that he could have found peace for his twisted, tortured soul... but it doesn't appear that he did. Wasn't it amusing how, when he presented portions of the poem, Incanus, as a final statement, the media on the scene at first thought it was his original work and that it was so profound. *sigh* It's regretful that he didn't prepare to meet his Maker before going before Him. Last edited by Valandil : 02-11-2004 at 11:58 AM. |
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02-11-2004, 12:01 PM | #75 |
Elf Lord
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For sure. A case of one bias overcoming another, perhaps.
But surely just because one black person didn't get sent to jail (whether or not he was guilty) doesn't invalidate the proposition that black people in general are treated differently by the justice system. It's always difficult with these issues, because you've got the facts of the particular case on the one hand, and a bunch of statistics on the other. However, stats can tell you where to look for biases. The UK has been shocked recently by some high-profile instances of racism in the justice system which pretty much confirmed what is suggested by the statistics around sentencing policies (e.g. black, and specifically afro-caribbean men, are more likely to get custodial sentences than the population in general). EDIT - cross post with Valandil. Last edited by The Gaffer : 02-11-2004 at 12:03 PM. |
02-11-2004, 02:26 PM | #76 | |||
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02-11-2004, 02:33 PM | #77 | |
Queen of Nargothrond
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"Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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02-11-2004, 10:55 PM | #78 | ||
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Unlikely, but still possible. If one innocent person is killed, this invalidates the whole system IMO.
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02-12-2004, 12:44 AM | #79 | |
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Living in England, do you understand the process here for someone who is sentenced to death? Do you have the figures on how many innocent people have been executed under the death penalty? And how many guilty? Just currious if you have these figures or if you're just throwing out a question to continue a conversation here. |
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02-12-2004, 01:04 AM | #80 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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We have the death penaly - it the decision of the people of America. You guys can worry about YOUR countries, instead of always trying to look over our fence and judge us. When you live here - you have a say in our way of life.
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