The death sentence.

And how can you say that the Bible should work as an ethical basis for a modern society? Its opinions and views on certain things are quite incomprehensible.

"GOD DID AUTHORIZE CAPITAL PUNISHMENT". Isn't that a contradiction of "Thou shall not kill"?

noldo:

That sounded like a rhetorical question to me. If you actually want me to answer, let me know.

anduin:

Exodus 20:13 (I think Deuteronomy 5:17 is translated identically):

NIV: "You shall not murder."
NASB: "You shall not murder."
KJV: "Thou shalt not kill."
NKJV: "You shall not murder."
RSV: "You shall not kill."
DARBY: "Thou shalt not kill."

YLT: "Thou dost not murder."

Hebrew word for "kill"/"murder" in the above situations is "ratsach" (Strong's 07523). Fulltext of the Strong's definition:

"1) to murder, slay, kill
1a) (Qal) to murder, slay
1a1) premeditated
1a2) accidental
1a3) as avenger
1a4) slayer (intentional) (participle)
1b) (Niphal) to be slain
1c) (Piel)
1c1) to murder, assassinate
1c2) murderer, assassin (participle)(subst)
1d) (Pual) to be killed"

The tense in this passage is "Qal" (1a).

Now, I don't speak Hebrew, so I won't try to spoonfeed you the definition. But the context makes a great number of suggestions...

Murder IS the most accurate translation

JL, we have similar credintials, though I've never considered those memorization compititions important. Used to do that a bit, but I realized that they're just about the words, not the meaning. I'm sorry I came off so harsh, but quite frankly the Bible does not defend capital punishment NOW, and that's a mistake a lot of people make

Touching, even.

For myself, the quizzing tournaments have served several purposes...

1) To tide me over while football's not on
2) To get me to open up my Bible more often
3) To give me some verses that I can call upon when I don't have the ability to grab a concordance (or even a Bible).

"Memorizing verses is great, but if you aren't applying what you've learned to your life, it's worthless."
-A speaker at the Saskatoon quiz meet (used to be an International champion, if memory serves)

In any case, I've given you all of the Scripture that I've seen that pertains to the issue at hand. I guess that one final observation is that the Old Testament had a lot of material about how to run a government (with God as the sovreign), but the New Testament sticks basically to personal directives.

Yes it does, for instance have you eaten pork lately The old testament's government stuff is largely outdated

...unless one realizes that a lot of these laws were specifically given to the Hebrews alone, not even to be enforced on other people of that land.

Ask a Rabi.

I've been arguing over the relevance of Old Testament Scriptures on another board I frequent (both on this subject, and on homosexuality - please, let's not go there). I really don't feel like doing it here...

I guess I'll just point out that the Levitical law was God talking... but one must figure out who he was talking to with each command.

I was merely responding to Mr.T's (:lol: ) post.

There are 600+ laws and commandments in the TaNaK... Most pertain to the Hevrews.

The christian jewish sect of Century 1 clearly decided to break away from most of these.

So the matter of eating pork (and some other things) is pointless.

And to know which of the 600+ laws&commandments are still followed by the modern Jews, ask a Rabi...

Hey, I'm always right! I pitty da fool who don't remember dat!

:lol:

cook 'em, boil 'em, fry 'em on a stick.
Jes so's their good and dead, I don't give a lick! :|

Strange words from a Vulcan...

...maybe it's that 7 year itch!

:lol:

( ponfar? )

:rollin: :lol:
"My mind to your mind....."

I think that the death sentece is just and no I dont think that it is an eye for an eye,Murder should have justice done to it,and the justice done should be the death-sentence.
But I disagree with filming a death(like they are doing with McVeigh,he did a horrible thing and he needs to die,but I think that filming his death is wrong.One hundred percent WRONG,Yes he does deserve death but no one deserves to be filmed during execution.)it's just turned into a revenge thing and entertainment,it really makes me mad and it's making America look more like the kings jester then ever
Sammy

Hmmm...

Maybe in a couple of years, a version of "Survivor" will have death-row convicts as contestants, and whoever is "booted" will be in fact put to death (on camera of course), and the survivor will be the one who will have won a ticket to a life-sentence commuted from his original death-sentence...

I hope I'm not giving any ideas to future tv producers that might be on this board!

(btw, not all of my above "idea" is original: someone did propose a Survivor-like show but with dangerous convicts, although not mass murderers, and the winning not being about being released or having a sentence commuted to a weaker one...

what was that movie again, with Shwarzie and the "Family Feud" host?... )

Samwise, why do you feel it is a just punishment? Why do we have the right? Why, then, is filming an execution wrong? Just trying to get the discussion going again

DT,if it is not just then why is it in the law?Does that make the law just if they let murderers free?If so then why is there punishment at all?If a murderer is in prison for lets say two years(which hopefully will never happen) then if he is let free for such a terrible deed then why should'nt we let a theif free after amonth of going to prison?
Nother thing,Did that guy have a right to kill someone?Then if he had the right then why cant we have the right to defend the weak the innocent?It is the governments job to defend the innocnent and they do that by ways of dealing justice to the criminals and protecting the innocent and the victims of that crime,the reason why I feel it is just is because #1.God told Isreal if anyone takes the blood of another man then you shall put him to death,#2.Without it we'd be in a heck of alot of trouble,#3.Even if a murderer is in prison for life,he still has a reward for doing that.What is it?Having his bills paid for him,his meals prepared for him,housing paid for,heck he even gets exercise in the room where they do exercises and if he is let out then he's even worse than ever cause he's gotten the muscles through the exercise room,and #4.If thats all the punishment you get for murder then anyone can do it and keep their life too,Oh joy your bills taken care of and you get to keep your life for it too!
To me that sounds kinda mixed up (oh also I think that murder-under a judges jurisdiction,not going up to him and shooting him your own self well then you'd be on the hook-pays for the victims death)those are the reasons I think that the death sentence is just.
Would you liked to be filmed in something that you'd rather keep private?I dont think so,and frankly I think that being filemed in death is just a revenge thing,these people who were wronged by McVeigh know that he is going to die for what he did and that should satisfiy them,but does it?NOOOOOO they have to watch the man they hate die.And I think that is wrong.
The stubborn
Sam
Ps.McVeigh asked for his death,and I bet you that the court would've had him put in there for life if he had'nt said exicute me,He's less mixed up then the government.
pps.No no survivor thing please,thats worse then LOTR action figures,actually I think thats kinda mixed up too.

I won't go into your convaluted logic, not in the mood today Mcveigh wanted to be filmed, but it's still wrong. Now to your points:

1. Israel didn't have a prison system, we do. There was no way they could hold prisoners so they wouldn't kill again. Old Testament doesn't always apply.

2. No we wouldn't, we'd keep them in jail. The point of a prison system is to protect the innocent.

3. That's just pure BS. The prison system is anything but a free life. You're cut off from the human world, from everything that seperates us from the animals. And prison food is gross. However, it's better to keep ppl in prison. I have met prisoners who are sorry for their crimes, who have repented to God and accepted him as their savior. WE DON"T HAVE THE RIGHT TO KILL ANY MORE THAN THEY DO.

4. BS

Darth Tater that is the TRUTH, many times when a criminal is released he cant stand on his own two feet because the system took care of his needs(dont say that is BS I've got a Big Bro who wont be able to take care of himself unless he was put in a halfway house)
Prison should'nt be a punishment,it is unbiblical to have it thus.America was founded on the Bible,and that means doing what is needed to be done and that includes taking the life of one who took the life of another.
What gave us the right?Who wrote the law?Who gave us standards for living?God.He's the one who gave us the athority to see that PROPER justice is done to criminals.And I wish that had happend in the past,it never did because we dont follow the law.
Sam
Ps I know Leviticus has something on murder check it out.
Pss.check again they had a HOLDING place for criminals until the judge could figure out what to do with the dude
Psss. What in the heck does convaluated mean?