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#61 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming - USA
Posts: 10,752
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Quote:
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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#62 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#63 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming - USA
Posts: 10,752
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Quote:
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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#64 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
Posts: 5,340
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What's so fun about getting under JD's skin anyway?
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
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#65 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#66 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
Posts: 5,340
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That's supposed to mean I think people who purposely post to get under your skin need a new (interesting) hobby.
We don't seem to speak the same language. I have to walk on eggshells when you are near. It would be fun to talk in person! ![]() ![]()
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
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#67 | |
The Intermittent One
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,671
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Quote:
and we even have to call chips 'fries' if we want any from McDonalds not exactly geared towards our country, is it? they dont serve full english for breakfast, pie and mash for lunch, or toad in the hole for dinner, with jam roly poly and custard for pudding ![]() |
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#68 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#69 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
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I think if you walked into any seafood fast-food restaurant in the States and tried to order 'fish and fries' you'd get some funny looks.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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#70 | |
The Intermittent One
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,671
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Quote:
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#71 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#72 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#73 | |
The Intermittent One
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,671
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Quote:
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#74 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#75 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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I missed this post.
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
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#76 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
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An observation on this thread:
Hardly anyone has actually attempted to answer the question, apart from Sween. Clearly, the answer is a complex mix of factors, but I wonder if it's possible to even ask this question without getting shouted down? |
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#77 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
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Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 03-18-2004 at 05:09 AM. |
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#78 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: The High Seas
Posts: 36
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Just to chime in on a raging arguement...
I read the first post as saying that the US is attacked by terrorists, but is not the only one. I think the contention is WHY they are attacked. I agree with The Gaffer, no one has tried to answer the question. For example, why did 9/11 happen at all? What where the motives?
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Taste Elven Steel, Creatures of the Dark Lord, and Despair! |
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#79 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming - USA
Posts: 10,752
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Quote:
Some murderous Moslim extremists didn't like American troops on Saudi Arabian soil during and after the Gulf War - and decided to make an attempt to hit America hard, in hopes that the USA would get out of the Middle East and leave it to people like them.
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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#80 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
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Firstly, what do we mean by terrorists?
In this case we seem to be using it as a short-hand for "al-Qaeda and related or sympathizing groups of Islamic fundamentalist extremists", though some posters seem to be extending it to use of terror as a tactic in itself, which would include groups like ETA and the Tamil Tigers, maybe even Aum Shinrikyo in Japan. (Timothy McVeigh?) Referring just to Islamic fundamentalists, I'd say the origin is the humiliation and frustration they feel when they see the comparative strength of the West and the Muslim nations. As jd said, their enemy is the entire Western world. (Eastern world, too, eventually) In traditional Islamic thought there is no separation of Church and State; the Community of Believers is (ideally) a single polity, as in the days of Mohammed or the early Caliphate. Since Islam is the true religion, the Islamic community should be the strongest society around, again as in the days of the Caliphs, or at least strong enough to stand up to the infidels of East and West. Instead, since the 16th Century, culminating in the fall of the Ottoman Empire (referred to by Osama in his communiques after 9/11), the Islamic world has suffered a constant string of defeats and conquests by the West. The strongest reaction to this was the secular pan-Arab nationalism typified by Nasser in Egypt and the Baath in Syria and Iraq. The Six-Days War in 1967 was an overwhelming setback for this ideology, especially given the nature of the enemy. To be defeated by Christendom was one thing, to be crushed by the despised Jews was total humiliation. The Arab (and most other Islamic) nations were a dispiriting collection of corrupt Sheikdoms or ineffectual secular tyrannies, capable of oppressing their own people, but not of standing up to the West or (as they saw it) its surrogate Israel. Islamic fundamentalism was an an alternative. The turning point was the Afghan War. In their eyes, the defeat of the Soviet Union and its subsequent collapse was the sign that the forces of Islam could prevail, first against the atheist Communists and then against the decadent and morally weaker West. Osama bin Laden was (is?) a Saudi, and his concerns were pretty parochial as Valandil pointed out- Infidel troops on Saudi soil- it seems it took al-Zawahiri (an Egyptian) to get him to at least put some emphasis on Palestine and the wider picture. They focussed their main attacks on America because it is the strongest power and the center of the Western world. I think it's significant that their main target was the WTC- emblem not just of the USA, but of the whole process of globalisation, modernisation, and (from their point of view) immoral and decadent secularism. So, yeah, their enemies are just about everybody- Western countries, Muslim states like Turkey and Morocco, "Marxists" like Saddam, the despised Shia heretics - anybody except fellow Sunni fundamentalists.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill Last edited by GrayMouser : 03-18-2004 at 12:57 PM. |
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