10-26-2004, 03:02 PM | #61 |
Elf Lord
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Rights carry responsibility.
The first right a person of either gender has in regard to abortion is the right to EMPLOY contraception. Let's hear it for the exercise of that right pro-actively instead of abortion re-actively.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
10-26-2004, 03:03 PM | #62 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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10-26-2004, 03:04 PM | #63 | |
the Shrike
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And nope, don't mind sitting in the hot seat. Will have to wait for after exams though.
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10-26-2004, 03:06 PM | #64 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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10-26-2004, 03:09 PM | #65 | |
the Shrike
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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10-26-2004, 03:24 PM | #66 | |
Long lost mooter
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The question is: should our society allow doctors to perform a procedure that terminates a viable fetus for just any reason? I can think of instances, that others have mentioned, where I could support the procedure being allowed. Inconvenience is not one of them. |
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10-26-2004, 03:32 PM | #67 | |
Long lost mooter
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10-26-2004, 03:32 PM | #68 | |
Elf Lord
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10-26-2004, 03:35 PM | #69 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
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10-26-2004, 03:42 PM | #70 | |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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10-26-2004, 03:47 PM | #71 | ||
Elf Lord
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You pick such a complex issue it's very hard to argue with your point. In individual cases it might be possible to do so, but it's difficult to debate across the spectrum. Here's one more thing that should be noted. The innocent child killed by the bomb was not a target. In this case, we are forced to kill innocents in order to kill the guilty, because otherwise we ourselves would be destroyed. We had little choice. We make every effort to avoid killing the innocent child. Accidents occur. Abortions are not accidents. We are usually not taking every possible option to avoid killing the innocents. This is saying that in order to keep one person from having problems (social, economic, emotional) it is valid to kill a completely innocent person. That is different from killing a few innocents in order to get the dangerous guilty. It's quite a different issue.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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10-26-2004, 03:50 PM | #72 | |
Long lost mooter
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I can't find the words to clarify any better, but to me it's a legal issue involving the government and the medical community, as well as the individual. Should it be available for everyone, no matter what the circumstance? Again, it all goes back to whether or not one believes a fetus is a life, and if it is, does it have the same rights as the woman. I happen to think that a viable fetus qualifies as a life. Maybe someday soon there will be an option where the embryo can be frozen instead of thrown away, to be used by infertile couples. I have known two* women who've had abortions, both of them due to the pregnancy being inconvenient at that point in their lives. I of course have heard of instances where the reasons were much more complex (such as the mentally handicapped 12 year old in South America [?]who had been raped). It's a complex issue, but I think there are many cases where it's pretty clear. Edit: make that three, I just remembered another one. |
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10-26-2004, 03:52 PM | #73 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-26-2004, 03:57 PM | #74 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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To me, INTENT is the issue. To me, your scenario would be similar to when a fetus is accidentally/unintentionally killed during an operation that was deemed medically necessary, after serious evaluation, and had to be performed on the pregnant woman.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-26-2004, 04:01 PM | #75 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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10-26-2004, 04:07 PM | #76 |
Long lost mooter
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Here's another complex issue:
Should the government allow something just because people want it? For instance, there are a lot of adults who want having sex with a minor to be legal. But it's not (yet). Likewise, just because people want to be able to end their pregnancy isn't a good enough reason for it to be legal in every case, IMO. There are other factors that are more important (again, that is my opinion). |
10-26-2004, 04:07 PM | #77 | |
Elf Lord
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10-26-2004, 04:08 PM | #78 | |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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10-26-2004, 04:09 PM | #79 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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(Hasty Ent - I answered your question over on the Gay/Les thread - I just wanted to let you know, because I didn't see a response from you - it's probably 3 pages back right now, and you can find it by searching for your name in posts by me)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
10-26-2004, 04:12 PM | #80 | |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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