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02-02-2002, 04:54 PM | #1 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lothlorien (actually Wales, but let's not talk about that)
Posts: 117
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I respect most of what u say about T.B, firstus ravenwood, I'm not sure about Tom and the Bombadilloes though
??? I do recken that Tom Bombadil is quite essential 2 Middle-Earth and the LotR books. I think there is quite possibly a little bit of Tom inside all of us. He's seems really merry and totally carefree, but underneath, he's all knowledgeable, like Treebeard. I suppose Tom Bombadil is 2 the Old Forest as Treebeard is 2 Fangorn Forest. He can seem wrapped up in his own little forest and his own little world though. He did say, i think, that he didn't venture outside his own forest. 'Ignorant' isn't the rite word 2 use however. He's clearly concerned with what happens around him, but puts a happy face on everthing. When he rescued the hobbits from the Barrow-downs, I believe he was singing? And i don't think he's too scared - he fought off Old Man Willow and the Barrow-Wights! Perhaps Tom is a kind of human ent. He's an interesting theory: Tom Bombadil was born an Ent in Fangorn Forest, he roamed the world of Middle-Earth and finally settled in the Old Forest. There he met Goldberry and slowly became humanish. I bet if u asked him nicely he'd speak a bit of Entish. Basically, Tom Bombadil ROX! So does Tim Benzedrine!
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'So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you can decide is what to do with the time that is given to you,' - Gandalf the Grey 'I left my body to science, but I'm afraid they've turned it down' - In memory of Graham Chapman 'Rubin sits like Buddah in a 10 foot cell, An innocent man in a living hell,' - From 'Hurricane' by Bob Dylan, the only innocent Hurricane protest song, written stressing the innocence of Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter, a black, middle-weight boxer imprisoned for 19 for a triple murder which he did not commit. |
02-02-2002, 06:30 PM | #2 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: New York City
Posts: 44
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Yet another theory
I once saw a documentary about Tolkien's life, and what struck me as a central theme of his life was his love of nature (trees, forests, glens, dales, etc.). He despised what the industrial revolution and land-gobblers and developers were doing to the beloved lands of his boyhood and early manhood. I shouldn't doubt, therefore, that his despair was what inspired him to write The Lord of the Rings, and that Tom, the guardian and caretaker of the pristine lands, represents John himself.
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02-02-2002, 06:33 PM | #3 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lothlorien (actually Wales, but let's not talk about that)
Posts: 117
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I agree.
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'So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you can decide is what to do with the time that is given to you,' - Gandalf the Grey 'I left my body to science, but I'm afraid they've turned it down' - In memory of Graham Chapman 'Rubin sits like Buddah in a 10 foot cell, An innocent man in a living hell,' - From 'Hurricane' by Bob Dylan, the only innocent Hurricane protest song, written stressing the innocence of Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter, a black, middle-weight boxer imprisoned for 19 for a triple murder which he did not commit. |
09-09-2005, 04:10 PM | #4 |
Hobbit in the Music
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Westmarch
Posts: 1,111
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More about the Music
Well, I was thinking some more about the Music of Iluvatar. Music of Creation is really an interesting idea. It's like in The Magician's Nephew by C.S. Lewis, when Aslan walks across the land, singing, and his music creates and awakens life throughout Narnia. I think Tolkien and Lewis must have discussed this idea in depth. It's really a beautiful one, I think.
In the Ainulindale, Iluvatar is first alone, then he starts singing, and slowly the Ainur come in to being with his song. How can music create? Is there power in music alone? Could a piece of music that floated off into the void, if left to itself, possibly take shape and physical form, and eventually become a sentient being? This is all speculation, of course. There is an old theological idea in several cultures that God created the world first in spirit, sort of like a blueprint, and then followed up this creation with the physical creation, but each part of the earth (water, rocks, animals, plants) has a spirit and a life beyond mere molecules and atoms. Could Tolkien be referring to this when he has the Valar first sing of Middle-Earth, and see it take form before their eyes, but when they actually arrive there, they realize that what they saw was only a blueprint, and that they must now create it in actuality? Why is there music in the water? Is it because music is fluid, like water, and can bend and flow with time, spawning new beauty and variation with each repetition? Is it the power of creativity, the human trait that most sets us apart from animals? What is intelligence and creativity? Where does it come from? Is it possible that we existed as spirits, as sparks of intelligence, before we were physically born? These are only questions to ponder. I think that Tolkien thought deeply about these things. I suppose some of my thought comes from recently watching I, Robot, and thinking, "Where does creativity come from?" If life creates music, can music create life? |
09-11-2005, 10:16 PM | #5 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 455
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This is a wonderful thread, truly one of the best I've read in all my time here (most of which has been spent in reading rather than posting, obviously).
It seems to me there are really two simultaneous discussions going on here, closely but not necessarily linked. The first is, "Who (or what) is Tom B.?" The second is, "Why?" I like the hypothesis in the opening post. It's as good as any of the many others I've considered or read. I also like the answers folks have given as to "why" (the Prof's & all of yours, too). Definitive answers may ultimately be impossible so all thoughtful conjecture is valid if for nothing more than to open our minds and hearts and keep us thinking. Last edited by Jon S. : 09-11-2005 at 10:18 PM. |
09-11-2005, 11:07 PM | #6 |
of the House of Fëanor
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,150
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Elanor, I just have to say that was a beautiful post you just wrote there, absolutely beautiful. That is a great question to ponder, "If life creates music, can music create life?". All day long, I've been despairing and sad thinking about how this world and us humans seem to be sinking into a dark age, all over the planet, and now your words have brought me some bright things to think about instead of tears. Thanx!
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
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09-15-2005, 07:36 AM | #7 |
Enting
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gondolin. in travian.it server5
Posts: 91
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I agree, this is one of the best threads. Maybe because TB is one of the best characters in LOTR. And I agree that JRR wishes strongly for us to speculate about him.
However, Back to topic, I would like to speak my speculations: If TB is a part of the music of the ainur, then he would not be an ainu himself. He would not have their power and concerns. IMHO, he is too different from an ent to be one. Besides, he says that he was here before aught else. The idea of him being part of the music is beautiful. This opens up another discussion: who of the ainur thought of him? since in the music, every ainu had his part. (Ulmo the water, Manwe the air etc.) I'm very undecided about what he is exactly, since all is a part of the music and it doesn't explain what he is technically, and what his powers are.
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The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day! What does "LOL" mean? |
08-31-2011, 06:30 AM | #8 |
Sapling
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: here and there, everywhere
Posts: 5
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This is the best theory on Tom Bombadil I've heard. There's no proof against it, despite the ranting of the arguers, and it just makes me happy.
I don't get why we need to define every creature and being in Middle Earth so rigidly. If ME is as rich and diverse in life as our Earth, there could be millions of creatures that Tolkien never had the time to describe. Most of what Tolkien says is inclusive, not exclusive. Who says that Ainur were the only beings created by the Music, or that they all have the same powers and weaknesses? I also recently read the Tom Bombadil chapters aloud and noticed that all his dialogue has a flow about it, like he's caught up in his own song and just enjoying life. Does the constant "rapping" get on Goldberry's nerves? I think it would get on mine! But Tom Bombadil is pretty awesome. |
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