Ronald Reagan has died

[Rían]

Originally posted by Radagast
Sadly, Rian, due to the abominable and frankly intolerable gagging order on political threads I cannot start a new thread.

Then can't you at least refrain from posting if you can't say anything nice, when you know some of the people in the Entmoot community are Americans who are sorrowful over the death of a popular president? That's all I was asking - for you to realize that some people in your own Entmoot community are sorrowful over this, and to respect their sorrow and refrain from posting anything derogatory. I don't think that's asking too much.

[Rían]

The bit of rain in Wash. was fitting, I thought. And then back here in California, it was a gorgeous day. The sunset was spectacular. When the 4 F-18's flew over, I ran outside and looked towards the museum, and I saw the "missing man" F-18 shooting up off by itself.

Those little "missing man" traditions, like the riderless horse and the aircraft formation, are so moving.

[Lizra]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
What does that have to do with anything?

I was wondering if you had formed your opinions from actual experience, as I have.

[Rían]

Originally posted by Radagast
Sadly, Rian, due to the abominable and frankly intolerable gagging order on political threads I cannot start a new thread.

(ps - frankly, Radagast, I really don't understand why you even stay, if it's so intolerable None of us are forced to stay here - anyone who doesn't like the board is certainly free to leave. But IMO, we're fortunate to have such a well-moderated board.)

[Rían]

I thought it was very touching when former Pres. Bush made his speech - he really choked up.

I enjoyed hearing many of Reagan's one-liners. I had heard some before, but heard some new ones. I like the one about Tutu - someone asked Reagan how his visit with Tutu went, and he answered "so-so"!

Mulroney's (sp?) story was nice, too, about how when he and Reagan were watching their wives approach from a distance, and Reagan said to him something like "for two Irish boys, we really married up!"

And I really enjoyed watching Nancy's military escort - he was so attentive and helpful to her. You would see him bend over just a bit and speak to her when a curb or something came up, or when a decision needed to be made that needed her input. And he gave her a little extra help getting in and out of cars and the plane - very gentlemanly and respectful and obviously knew how to escort ladies, esp. elderly ones who are in great mourning over the loss of their husband and had been attending various private and state functions for a week.

[Lizra]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
Has anyone heard that Reagan supporters are tyring to get Reagan on one of the dollar bills. I think it is a stupid idea, he was a decent president but I don't think he deserves his face on our currency.

http://www.showmenews.com/2004/Jun/20040609News030.asp

Yes, I have heard that, and that's what I was referring to as overkill....IMO. The passing of a former president is sad indeed, and Ronald Regan did many good things during his time in office. But I personally do not feel he was so markedly different from the other fine men who have served this country as president. I think the political press has a tendency to go overboard nowadays. Although I wouldn't call it a "stupid" idea! I just don't think it is neccessary. I don't remember the Ronald Regan years as being THAT ultra exceptional. Life went on, and he was a good enough president. I was quite surprised when I didn't get my mail on Friday! This "day of mourning" thing.... have they done that in the past when all the other presidents have died? I don't remember it, but I might not have noticed it before I suppose!

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Lizra
I was quite surprised when I didn't get my mail on Friday! This "day of mourning" thing.... have they done that in the past when all the other presidents have died? I don't remember it, but I might not have noticed it before I suppose!

Only if you can remember LBJ's funeral which was over 30 years - since that was the last time there was a State Funeral for a president. I believe the reason Nixon didn't get a state funeral was because he resigned the presidency. I think there have been 10 formal state funerals - the first being Abraham Lincoln's. State funerals have nothing to really do with the media - but has to do with it being the type of funeral it is. It also has to do with how much the public is interested in it and with this president people were VERY interested. The organizers were even surprised and unprepared for the reaction - as demonstrated in California during the Repose.

[Rían]

Yeah, I agree about the press - they certainly aren't sentimental - they were just responding to the huge amount of public interest that they saw, starting in California at the library viewing.

[Rían]

JD - it looks like you're on, and you're good at things like this, maybe you can help me (I could use Google but I'd rather ask you ) -

IIRC, Ford was the only president to NOT be elected to either president or vice-president. Isn't that right? Could you give a brief summary, if you know? (We were pointing out the various dignitaries to our oldest son, and saw Ford, and I remembered that.)

Wasn't it fun picking out all those faces from the past? It was fun to watch them schmooze and mill around before they had to go to their seats. I think Prince Charles nodded off during the service, too ...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
JD - it looks like you're on, and you're good at things like this, maybe you can help me (I could use Google but I'd rather ask you ) -

IIRC, Ford was the only president to NOT be elected to either president or vice-president. Isn't that right? Could you give a brief summary, if you know? (We were pointing out the various dignitaries to our oldest son, and saw Ford, and I remembered that.)

yeah - that is right. I had forgotten about that. He was the only vice President to come into the office by the 25th amendment after Vice President Agnew resigned.

Amendment 25
Section 2

Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the vice president, the President shall nominate a vice president who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority of vote of both Houses of Congress.

Richard Nixon

In his 1972 bid for office, Nixon defeated Democratic candidate George McGovern by one of the widest margins on record.

Within a few months, his administration was embattled over the so-called "Watergate" scandal, stemming from a break-in at the offices of the Democratic National Committee during the 1972 campaign. The break-in was traced to officials of the Committee to Re-elect the President. A number of administration officials resigned; some were later convicted of offenses connected with efforts to cover up the affair. Nixon denied any personal involvement, but the courts forced him to yield tape recordings which indicated that he had, in fact, tried to divert the investigation.

As a result of unrelated scandals in Maryland, Vice President Spiro T. Agnew resigned in 1973. Nixon nominated, and Congress approved, House Minority Leader Gerald R. Ford as Vice President.

Gerald R. Ford

When Gerald R. Ford took the oath of office on August 9, 1974, he declared, "I assume the Presidency under extraordinary circumstances.... This is an hour of history that troubles our minds and hurts our hearts."

It was indeed an unprecedented time. He had been the first Vice President chosen under the terms of the Twenty-fifth Amendment and, in the aftermath of the Watergate scandal, was succeeding the first President ever to resign.

I hope this helps. Ford had a very interesting presidency - because he is the only president who was never elected to the office.

Wasn't it fun picking out all those faces from the past? It was fun to watch them schmooze and mill around before they had to go to their seats. I think Prince Charles nodded off during the service, too ...

I didn't see Prince Charles in the crowd, I knew he was there - just didn't see him in the catheral - I was watching ABC - but I'm sure they were all using the same feed. They were doing close ups of all the former presidents. Clinton looked like he was falling asleep several times.

[Rían]

Yes, I saw Clinton appear to nod off, too - nice rainy day, long wait, nice music ... just too much to resist! Carter and Ford did much better - pretty alert for such old guys!

Thanks for the info on Ford, JD - I couldn't remember how Nixon's VP left, and I didn't realize Nixon got to nominate Ford - I thought Ford was automatically made VP, kinda like the succession to the presidency rules. I thought he had some position in the House and was automatically bumped to VP, but that was wrong. Interesting bit of trivia about Ford, isn't it?

[Lizra]

Originally posted by jerseydevil
Only if you can remember LBJ's funeral which was over 30 years - since that was the last time there was a State Funeral for a president. I believe the reason Nixon didn't get a state funeral was because he resigned the presidency. I think there have been 10 formal state funerals - the first being Abraham Lincoln's. State funerals have nothing to really do with the media - but has to do with it being the type of funeral it is. It also has to do with how much the public is interested in it and with this president people were VERY interested. The organizers were even surprised and unprepared for the reaction - as demonstrated in California during the Repose.

That's interesting, so exactly who actually decides whether a pres gets a state funeral or not?

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Lizra
That's interesting, so exactly who actually decides whether a pres gets a state funeral or not?

Reagan's funeral has been planned since his assination attempt. It's a combination of the government, family and supporters who plan out the presidents funeral - but I'm not sure who has the most influence.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Lizra
Yes, I have heard that, and that's what I was referring to as overkill....IMO. The passing of a former president is sad indeed, and Ronald Regan did many good things during his time in office. But I personally do not feel he was so markedly different from the other fine men who have served this country as president. I think the political press has a tendency to go overboard nowadays. Although I wouldn't call it a "stupid" idea! I just don't think it is neccessary. I don't remember the Ronald Regan years as being THAT ultra exceptional. Life went on, and he was a good enough president. I was quite surprised when I didn't get my mail on Friday! This "day of mourning" thing.... have they done that in the past when all the other presidents have died? I don't remember it, but I might not have noticed it before I suppose!

Heh, I was a bit harsh, I just don't think his accomplishments deserve such a tremendous honor. Plus, he would would be replacing one of the historical figures already on our currency, which I wouldn't like at all.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ragnarok
Heh, I was a bit harsh, I just don't think his accomplishments deserve such a tremendous honor. Plus, he would would be replacing one of the historical figures already on our currency, which I wouldn't like at all.

Well I think that his accomplishments do deserve great honors - I just think it's too early to have them be honored. I also disagree with him being placed on the $10. It would be wrong to replace Hamilton - the father of the central bank and the First Secretary of the Treasury.

Mt Rushmore may be doable - but I think it should wait for history to iron out his Presidency - although they didn't really wait for Roosevelt.

[Khamûl]

Originally posted by RÃ*an

OH, was THAT what that was? I've never heard it - but I commented to my husband that it was GORGEOUS!

"Mansions of the Lord" was written for the movie "We Were Soldiers". According to the story that I read somewhere, the director of that movie was looking for the Army counterpart to the Navy Hymn (Eternal Father, Strong to Save), but found that there wasn't one. So he got together with some folks and wrote "Mansions of the Lord". It's on the "We Were Soldiers" soundtrack, performed by the West Point Glee Club. It's a beautiful piece.

To fallen soldiers let us sing
Where no rockets fly nor bullets wing
Our broken brothers let us bring
To the Mansions of the Lord

No more bleeding, no more fight
No prayers pleading through the night
Just divine embrace, eternal light
In the Mansions of the Lord

Where no mothers cry and no children weep
We will stand and guard though the angels sleep
Through the ages safely keep
The Mansions of the Lord.

[Rían]

Thanks, Khammy

[Khamûl]

My pleasure.

[The Gaffer]

Reagan was elected president when I was 15, so I have good (as in clear) memories of his time in office, albeit from a left-wing British perspective.

The best thing I can say about him is that he responded positively when Gorbachev came to the table with a reformist agenda.

In some ways, he was the first truly post-modern president: unconcerned with details of policy and freely delegating responsibility, his success was in reaching directly to people with his undoubted charisma and talent for uncomplicated delivery.

In that sense, he was George W's natural predecessor (except W doesn't have his charisma).

My view is that history will not be as kind as recent commentators suggest. At the moment, we're getting very much a "victor's history" of the collapse of communism. However, it would be unfair to reflect badly on Reagan, since he was very much a figurehead anyway.

I felt genuine sadness when I heard that he'd been diagnosed with Alzheimer's (which is a cruel, devastating illness).

[Mercutio]

Jerseydevil--you may be interested in this article. It explains how Reagan's death may actually help the Bush campaign for reelection.

"America Votes | Reagan's shadow dims Kerry campaign"