12-22-2003, 08:06 AM | #61 | |
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As for the rest, I agree completely with what Artanis said in her previous post. Though with 25 members as opposed to the previous 15, it's going to be a tremendous feat to orchestrate the functioning of the European Union. We can expect quite some bumbs on our way there.
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12-22-2003, 09:14 AM | #62 |
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I think Artanis summed it up pretty good there. National interests plays a big role in the EU and will continue to do for quite some time.
I saw the failure of the Constitution coming. You have France and Germany on one side and Spain and Poland on the other. None of these countries wants to see its power in the EU reduced. In Poland it is political suicide for any politician to make concessions for Germany. The mayor of Warsaw said that those who even discuss a reduced Polish influence are traitors. The Polish newspapers have headlines which say "Nice or death" (referring to summit in Nice where Poland was guaranteed 27 votes in the EU Council of Ministers, while Germany with a population twice as big as Poland's only got 29 votes). And in Germany, after Poland stood up for the US in the war in Iraq, many Germans see the Poles as American henchmen. But at least Chancellor Shröeder and Prime Minister Miller are ready to discuss and debate. Both have assured one another that the polemic will not affect the relations between Germany and Poland. I read that talks about the Constitution can be held in 2005 at the earliest. So I believe we will have to wait a long time before we see a new Constitution in action.
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12-22-2003, 12:24 PM | #63 |
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Indeed, Artanis surmised the problem well.
Further, I believe the enlargement was, at this time, a mistake. The reform should have been accomplished before, and only then should we have follow through with the enlargement. Still, most were willing to compromise, and that seems to indicate that the problem will inevitably be solved in the future.
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12-22-2003, 12:45 PM | #64 |
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A lot of people here in the UK regard it as a good thing that the constitutional talks have stalled because they feel it is going ahead too fast.
Not least amongst these is Tony Blair, since he's outwardly pro-Euro but secretly scared to call a referendum and this means that he can put it off indefinitely. The EU seems like it is trying to walk before it can run, here. A whole bunch of new states are joining up at the same time as they're trying to tighten the integration between member states. Maybe one thing at a time would be best. For me, there are two things that have to be addressed before we integrate further: 1) The democratic deficit which is at the heart of Europe: it is too remote from individuals, it is manifestly corrupt (its accountants have just refused to ratify its account for the eighth year running, and some countries routinely ignore rulings and agreements without sanction) and it is unaccountable. 2) On a more UK-specific level: the vulnerability of British people to interest rate changes. Here in the UK, we have a much higher level of home ownership, mostly funded by extensive mortgage borrowing (some banks are lending 5x your salary). These people would be really hammered by any interest rate rise. |
12-22-2003, 01:38 PM | #65 | |
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12-22-2003, 01:41 PM | #66 | |
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12-22-2003, 01:50 PM | #67 | |
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New Jersey had to take to court a census thing that would have virtually made NJ non-existent. The government puts out reports that companies and others use to determine where to move, where to open up businesses, etc. Southern New Jersey was just going to be wrapped up into the Philadelphia statitics and Northern New Jersey was just going to be wrapped up in the New York City statics. This would mean that no one would even be able to see what NJ has to offer over these two places. New Jersey does NOT have a unique identity (to the outside world anyway) or really a high self respect because we are stuck between to major metropolitan cities. Philadelphia is far less obnoxious and arrogant though and New York toward New Jersey.
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01-19-2005, 03:35 PM | #68 | ||
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*bump*
Don't worry Eärniel, I'll help promote Belgium individualism! I know cheesed I'd be if Canada were considered a satellite of the USA. Some people already do. *suppresses rage* Don't start with me now JD. Anyhoo, here's also another thread about the 10 countries that joined the EU in 2004 - 10 Countries admitted to the EU Now for a general EU discussion... there was a lot of talk of EU policy in the Increased Islamic Influence in European Nations thread, let's continue that here. Oh yeah... and... List of Member Countries Austria Belgium Cyprus Czech Republic Denmark Estonia Finland France Germany Greece Hungary Ireland Italy Latvia Lithuania Luxembourg Malta Poland Portugal Slovakia Slovenia Spain Sweden The Netherlands United Kingdom Applicants Bulgaria Croatia Romania Turkey
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01-19-2005, 04:25 PM | #69 | |
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It would be nice if Belgium showed their individualism and didn't just try to ride on the coattails ofit's two big neighbors. Believe me - Belgium will be lost and forgotten once they get their way.
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01-19-2005, 04:36 PM | #70 | ||
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Belgium might share many views with France and Germany. It doesn't make the country a satellite state.
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01-19-2005, 05:06 PM | #71 | |
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01-19-2005, 07:13 PM | #72 |
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You know, I honestly don't know whether I should laugh at this or be angry.
So unless we follow policies that are lina recta opposite of France and Germany we're just a French poodle... marvelous political insight. How on earth do you come up with this and believe it as well? Is this because Belgium opposed the war in Iraq? JD, I don't know where you're getting these ideas. The truth hurts you say, but this isn't truth, this is... idiocy. And like we care to make the French news, seen all the ranting you done about them lately, I think we should be glad not to be on it.
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01-19-2005, 07:19 PM | #73 | |||
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01-19-2005, 07:25 PM | #74 | |||
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You can't deny that was why they wanted to change the way votes are cast before the new new members came on board in 2004. France and Germany didn't want their power to be erroded - so they were pushing for that change - whih the eastern european countries called foul on.
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01-20-2005, 05:04 AM | #75 |
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It's probably more true to say that the EU (or the EC as it was pre-Maastricht) was far more of a Franco-German stitch-up club in the past than it is likely to be in the future.
We shouldn't be surprised that groups within the EU kick and scream when their influence gets diluted, but it's important that they don't get away with it. The most disappointing thing about the EU for me is the lack of leadership. The Commission are very much stooges placed by member states to represent their own interests first and foremost. IMO, the principles of the EU are sound and aspirational and I think they need to be vigorously defended from narrow national interests. |
01-20-2005, 07:03 AM | #76 | ||
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I agree Gaffer. I think there's a fine balance between getting things done and having member nations being told what to do by a handful of countries.
To achieve one I think the other must be sacrified, at least to a certain degree. I think it's possible to have autonomy at the same time as an alliance for a greater good (such as stronger economies and fair trade), but so far, human beings stink at this. I think previous attempts to make environmental policy on a global scale illustrates this, but it doesn't mean we should stop trying.
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01-20-2005, 11:06 AM | #77 |
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Quite right! These things are too important to leave to the "free market" of multinationals and their puppet governments.
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01-20-2005, 12:33 PM | #78 | ||
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Aha, the real EU thread.
Oooh, don't get me started about free markets. As a Canadian, this reminds me of those irritating words "free trade". If you work in the lumber industry in British Columbia (logging is our largest industry), "free trade" translates to "the Americans get to impose terriffs on our softwood anyway" and "we will sell them cheap power regardless". Personally, I think we should flip the switch, but that's another thread. My point with this is I hope economically smaller nations don't get ripped off by powerful partner nations in an economic agreement, whether it's going back on a no-tarriff agreement, or something else.
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01-21-2005, 06:18 AM | #79 |
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Yeah, there's no such thing as a free market.
I guess it's all about overcoming short-sighted national interest. Governments have a duty to get the best deal they can for their country, but that's not necessarily what's best for everyone. The EU is very much an exercise in trying to make the broader view prevail, though of course there are lots of issues around establishing agreements and implementation! However, the key thing is not to give up. |
01-21-2005, 11:00 AM | #80 |
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felt i had to subscribe to this thread, as it is an interesting read,
on the french: The EU is a club to which one is joined, but a philosophy to which one does not adhere to |
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