06-16-2003, 03:54 PM | #61 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
How do you know what happened there? Can you see in the Bible any mention of claiming their women as slaves or killing kids? The israelians in that time wanted the land. They conquer it in a war. In wars people get killed (unfortunately). |
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06-18-2003, 10:39 AM | #62 | ||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Quote:
Any references for that? it's news to me (about the Philistines, I mean.) As for the Palestinians, they speak Arabic, but like most peoples in the Middle East, while waves of conquerors came and went, most of the peasants remained the same stock. The Egyptians for example are called Arabs, but they are not related to the people of the Arabian peninsula - they are actually the genetic descendants of the people who built the pyramids, though their language and culture has been changed. Same thing for the Turks. The Seljuk Turks who conquered Anatolia numbered about 20,000; they imposed their language and identity on a people who are basically the same Hittite-stock who have lived there for thousands of years. Quote:
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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06-18-2003, 12:52 PM | #63 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Yeah but the bottom line is in war the winner takes and that's it. Be it Europe, Asia, USA, Caribbean, etc. etc. You can't rewrite history's rules.
You can only try not to repeat the mistakes of those before you.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
06-18-2003, 01:09 PM | #64 |
Elf Lord
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Fair enough.
But if your only moral standard is winner takes all, then don't claim that the Jews have any special right to this land, and don't object on moral grounds the next time a suicide bomber takes out a bus.
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
06-18-2003, 04:18 PM | #65 | ||
Elf Lord
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06-18-2003, 06:29 PM | #66 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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Quote:
I cannot argue with someone whose viewpoint is so skewed by hatred. Perhaps when the Chinese launch one of those surface to surface missles they've been installing that point towards home you'll feel a bit differently.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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06-18-2003, 07:28 PM | #67 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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He did preface it by stating, "But if your only moral standard is winner take all...". Is that your moral standard?
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
06-19-2003, 12:53 AM | #68 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
If your only standard is "might makes right" you can't object on moral grounds when your opponents adopt the same standards. Note here that I am only referring to the position you seem to be advocating; I'm not equating the actions of Hamas and the IDF. I agree that the Palestinians, like other defeated peoples, will have to accept the results of their defeat and live with a compromise that leaves them with a small fraction of their original land. Israel now has a moral claim to exist that is as strong as Canada's , America's , Australia's or Taiwan's (all land taken from the previous inhabitants) As I said earlier, Arafat was not only a fool but a despicable fool when he rejected the deal offered by Barak, and thought he could squeeze more out of Israel by using suicide bombers (that is, by allowing Hamas and Islamic Jihad to act when he could have stopped them.)
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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06-20-2003, 02:15 PM | #69 |
The Original Amazonian Coconut
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Location: Answering no questions, telling no lies.
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Hem, hem |
07-15-2006, 02:47 PM | #70 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 301
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Middle East
Just wondering, has anyone else noticed the Middle-East is on fire?
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07-15-2006, 05:38 PM | #71 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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Indeed.
It seems that Hez was hoping others would join them when they attacked from Lebanon, thus embroiling Israel in a full scale war (again). Israel is already fighting in the Gaza and this would have been another front. Meanwhile, reports that Iran supplied high tech missles to the militants that attacked the Israeli war ship, fuels the rage further.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
07-15-2006, 05:40 PM | #72 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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**AS WE HAVE A THREAD ON ISRAEL & GAZA I AM MERGING THESE TWO**
Also since the last post in the old thread was in 2003, a FULL three years ago, I am modifying the topic title to reflect the topic area of concern more clearly.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Last edited by Spock : 07-15-2006 at 05:46 PM. |
07-15-2006, 06:33 PM | #73 |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
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Read this link, for a different take on what is happening in the middle-east.
http://infowars.net/articles/july200...6Graduates.htm
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; Last edited by The Telcontarion : 07-15-2006 at 06:40 PM. |
07-15-2006, 06:49 PM | #74 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
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Where's Rad the Brown been?
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
07-15-2006, 07:00 PM | #75 |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
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Typical
This is typically what is happening in the middle-east.
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/080606watson.htm
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
07-15-2006, 07:13 PM | #76 |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
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OOOOhhhhhh, I am dieing for the 911 thread to be reopened. I am literally chomping at the bit.
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
07-15-2006, 07:32 PM | #77 |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
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Anothe typical example
This how they lie to the american people to get us to believe what they are doing in the middle-east.(The Rumsfeld video)
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles.../110506TDS.htm
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; Last edited by The Telcontarion : 07-17-2006 at 10:59 AM. |
07-15-2006, 07:46 PM | #78 |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: By the shores of cuivinien
Posts: 694
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More lies
Here we go again.
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/apr.../240406WMD.htm Still be what they are saying now
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
07-16-2006, 10:00 AM | #79 |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 301
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OK, my opinion.
Hezbollah brought this on itself by breaking a de facto truce with Israel along the border. Hezbollah has no legitimate complaint against Israel since the Israeli withdrawal from south Lebanon. I think it was acting for 3 reasons: a) on its own behalf, to bolster the case for refusing to disarm and turn over control to the Lebanese Army. b) On Syria's behalf, to show that Lebanon will be in a state of chaos without Syrian involvement. c) On Iran's behalf , to deflect pressure away from Iran on the nuclear issue. That being said, I think Israel's response has been disproportionate and counterproductive. They should have restricted themselves to hitting targets in southern Lebanon and the Bekka Valley; by targetting the rest of Lebanon they only serve to deflect blame ( both within Lebanon and without) away from Hezbollah and towards themselves. |
07-16-2006, 11:43 AM | #80 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
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I cannot dialogue with those whose viewpoint is so skewed by hatred. Perhaps when the Chinese or N. Koreans launch one of those surface to surface missles they've been installing that point towards home you'll feel a bit differently.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |