11-18-2004, 11:24 PM | #61 | |
the Shrike
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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11-18-2004, 11:26 PM | #62 | |
AngAdan
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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me," |
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11-18-2004, 11:34 PM | #63 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
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Lefty,
Once again, we agree ! *************************** Children differ greatly in their interest in these matters, but actually age 6 is not a bad time to initiate discussion on the level they seem interested in. E.g., Little Johnny comes home and asks his mother, "Where did I come from?" Mom, who has been eagerly preparing for this day, though with a great deal of angst launches into a detailed presentation of the facts of life. When she's done, she asks, "Johnny, do you understand what I just told you?" "Not really, Mom. Tim says he's from Chicago. Now, where did I really come from?"
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
11-18-2004, 11:38 PM | #64 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Not this married woman!
My husband had a all-the-details talk with our oldest when he was 9. (I had my ear plastered to the door! He did a great job! )
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
11-20-2004, 11:10 AM | #65 | |
Manic Cardboard-Box Dweller
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I remember being pretty "sexual" when I was around that age, also. I think I first started puberty when I was 9 ish... I dunno. I remember being really curious about sex and I was pretty sexual in a weird way (it would freak me out, thinking of little kids I know who are 9 thru 11, and knowing what crazyness they're capable of). I think in Middle-School kids are more obsessed with sex than they are in highschool... it's the new big deal then.
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11-20-2004, 01:53 PM | #66 |
the Shrike
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Yeah, I hit puberty when I was 8, and started having periods when I was 11, so I was an early bloomer. In fact, I had my period BEFORE the sex talks, and thought I was dying, lol. Also, I actually knew people who were having sex at that age (11). I don't even WANT to think of how that one worked!
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
11-20-2004, 02:20 PM | #67 |
Manic Cardboard-Box Dweller
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totally. Same with me, pretty much. I knew kids who claimed they were having sex at age 11 but looking back in hindsight I doubt they were, but I suppose I will never know. I know there are ocassionally girls getting abortions as early as 10 and 11.
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11-20-2004, 05:38 PM | #68 | |
Elf Lord
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"If you even look at a woman lustfully, you have committed adultery with her in your heart." I think one can commit the same sin in ways that are beyond the merely physical. What do you think of that passage?
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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11-21-2004, 12:59 PM | #69 |
The Blobbit
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*Hides... why so mad? *
I have no recollection of writing that, but I don't think that it pragmatically unreasonable... mind you, I did just go on forever about ideology. Firstly, I would like to know the context of the quote. Was he speaking as it were a law? Was he speaking of people already married? Or should I just pack my bags and leave Christiaity for being human? I'm sure too that one can commit sins in various ways, but frankly I think that the desire and practice of a sin is worse than a sin alone. By the by, what then of the 'it's okay to think gay thoughts so long as you don't act on them argument'? And people in general, I don't think it's impossible to teach your children to obey their parents on big issues. And for sex ed to not be sex encouragement.
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
11-21-2004, 01:32 PM | #70 |
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It's in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount.
Matthew 5:27-29 (27) "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' (28) But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (29) If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. I was just reading a book on the 'seven deadly sins' in the works of Dorothy Sayers...wait a sec. I need to find the book and then find the section I want and then reread some stuff... Ah here we go. "...the Seven Deadly Sins were regarded as tendencies or root causes of specific vices, rather than actual offenses in themselves. The problem of Sin was understood, as Christ expounded it, to be internal rather than external, and the essential issue was ungodliness of the heart rather than destructiveness in behavior." Lust is the root sin or cause of (for example) adultery.
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Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
11-21-2004, 02:28 PM | #71 |
the Shrike
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Haha, looks like Janny's gotta stop having "fun" with his girlfriend.
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
11-21-2004, 03:28 PM | #72 |
The Blobbit
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This thread has taken a bit of an anti-me turn. *Humpf*
But you know, a Hugo Boss advert was on TV a few moments ago. Unfortunatly, I was having a TV dinner and a fork was in my right hand. Transpires that after my eye was forked out, my sense of blinding pain insisted that my fork hand had offended me. I hope you can appreciate my predicament. I take your point Mercutio. Sin is the cause of destruction. But is sin alone bad if it does not cause destruction? And I suspect the whole 'gay thoughts' question requires a 'no' answer for its argument to be valid.
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
11-21-2004, 04:13 PM | #73 | |||
Elf Lord
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I am unconvinced by the belief that it's only the action that is a sin, for I think thoughts also can be sinful. Meditating on sinful things I think can be a sin itself. Thinking a great deal of homosexual thoughts for pleasure can be sinful, just as thinking and enjoying normal sexual thoughts (in an improper way or time) can be sinful. If on the other hand, we try to resist those sexual thoughts that are clearly not of God, I think that we're all right. Having the thought appear is not our fault. Whether we entertain it or not is. I actually have something of a difficulty myself, here, being unclear on where the proper sexual thoughts end and the improper sexual thoughts start. So that's an area of difficulty for me, which I trust God will grant me the answers to, in due time. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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11-21-2004, 05:23 PM | #74 | |||
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Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. |
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11-21-2004, 05:32 PM | #75 |
The Blobbit
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Sin alone is bad. Therefore individual sins, e.g. lustful thoughts alone are bad. Thus the argument about homosexuality 'being okay so long as you think it not act it' is wrong. But, as Lief established, having homosexual thoughts is okay, provided that one doesn't willfully entertain them.
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
11-22-2004, 09:37 AM | #76 |
Manic Cardboard-Box Dweller
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I think it's dumb how christian kids will kind of jump around the rules.... having oral or anal sex in order to remain "pure". Well, if "pure" means not having penile-vaginal penetration, then sure. But I think they're missing the point. Oral and anal sex are still sexual acts which include lust, which is a sin. I wouldn't consider them chaste.
In my opinion, "purity" and "chastity" are when you don't do anything that would make a partner/spouse jealous. Being pure for someone upon marriage would be that you haven't done anything in the past that your spouse would be upset about or uncomfortable with. Of course, there's forgiveness and love and all that, but you shouldn't willingly do something and just say "well it will be forgiven." You can't expect forgiveness. Nobody deserves it. IMO, from a christian standpoint (I am not christian, but assuming a christian identity here) the very things that you wouldn't do with other people except your spouse, you shouldn't do with other people except your spouse. Meaning you are cheating on your husband/wife by intentionally doing things with other people that will (knowingly) arouse you or provide sexual pleasure, but I don't think this is limited to time. Doing these things will be cheating on your husband/wife you haven't met yet. The concept isn't specific to religion, either. Some religious people follow it for religious purposes instead of for themselves. I am not religious and I know that if I ever do eventually get a life partner, I know I will regret anything sexual I would have done in the past. Knowing this, I'm lately hesitant about sexuality. But I don't have much trust in marriage anymore. Around half of marriages end in divorce. So much for life partners.
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I love the fishes. Last edited by Sminty_Smeagol : 11-22-2004 at 09:44 AM. |
11-22-2004, 06:04 PM | #77 | |||||||
Elf Lord
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When the marriage partners go into it without any thought of what's coming to them, but only of loving and benefiting the other person, then the marriage will certainly worked out. Christians call that agape love, the highest form of love. It is sacrificial love, and a truly marvelous thing.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 11-22-2004 at 06:07 PM. |
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11-22-2004, 06:47 PM | #78 |
Dúnedain Ranger of the North
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Teen Abstinence??? Yes!
(They have to be 21...)
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11-24-2004, 01:04 AM | #79 | ||||||
Manic Cardboard-Box Dweller
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When teenagers form and end relationships on a whim, I think they often grow into adults living in this same basis, until they find someone who they believe they won't have the "whim" to leave, calling this trust in their own feelings "love". However, when one lives like this, based on emotions, you are affected by emotional fluctuations a lot and are used to reacting based on them. To me, this isn't love. A loving relationship isn't based on these infatuations, but, in my opinion, is more like a commited friendship than anything else. A lifelong friendship with sex as a perk. I think genuine empathy and selfless (if anything can truly be selfess) concern are key elements. Even if they completely leave you forever, wishing the best for them. Meh, I'm not exactly *reputed* for having experience on the matter, but I have been developing a sense of what I feel love to be, and it's terrible to explain it since everything sounds so cliche. Right now, I am thinking that there is no such thing as "unrequited love". I feel love for people I don't even know, and I feel love for people who barely know me. To me, loving someone and them loving me do not neccessarily correlate - unless in a romantic sense, in which case I think there is mutual generic love followed by, under the right conditions, romantic/sexual feelings and attachment, but unless the feeling is mutual then to me it is the same love as loving a stranger or another person just for being who they are, and so it doesn't matter if it is unrequited, nor should it be expected to be "requited". Just really valuing what you see in a person and caring more about this person than yourself to where you don't really even exist, you just want to help this person or you just want their life to go well or for them to find contentment. Sometimes I just feel a real.... humanity just watching some people. Even if they don't notice me.
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11-24-2004, 02:04 AM | #80 |
Elf Lord
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I'm afraid I won't be responding to your lengthy and very well thought out post in great depth, simply because I agree with too much of it and greatly respect the rest .
I guess it might differ from person to person, but in my experience, one actually can control what one does in dreams, some of the time. Not all of the time, but some of it. For me, whenever I've had a dream where I'm there with a girl, and sex is the temptation, there has always been a choice. I always had the ability to choose, yes or no, and I always have decided no. I don't like those dreams. I wasn't serious when I said, "you're definitely a Christian". I was merely remarking on how similar our viewpoints were. I agree with your "disgusting pig" comments. I think that's all the responses I had to make. A great post, Smeagol .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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