06-06-2002, 07:46 PM | #61 |
Hoplite Nomad
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ps lesbians are the lest likely to get std's
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
06-06-2002, 07:59 PM | #62 |
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simply i think money is wasted on vice crimes that could be better used elsewhere
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
06-06-2002, 08:28 PM | #63 | ||
the Shrike
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 06-07-2002 at 12:49 AM. |
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06-07-2002, 05:09 AM | #64 | ||||||||||||
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To Wayfarer
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Does he not mention that there are medical and social risk with "normal" families. incest, abuse, alcoholism, drug use, disrespect, mental cruelity, runaways, poor grade, social mal-adjustment etc... happen in "normal" familes. Why would he "deliberately omitting or disregarding the significant " information from his own report? Quote:
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there IS a difference between innate inclination to be gay and institutionalized homosexuality. In prison there's a lot of gay stuff going on. when they get out the go back to hetero sex. Does this mean they were innately gay that the enviromnet force gay activity on normal men. Do gay people who go in gay come out of prison gay? Quote:
Or to say it this way a higher percentage of gay MEN have aids HOWEVER the total number of people with aids is IMMENSELY greater than the total number of gay men Quote:
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I found the report weak on many points and is SPECICALLY homophobic and not neutral.
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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06-07-2002, 05:24 AM | #65 | ||||
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I was trying to to the onus off of it being a FUNDAMENTALLY cultural factor. Quote:
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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06-07-2002, 05:37 AM | #66 | ||||
the Shrike
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 06-07-2002 at 05:44 AM. |
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06-07-2002, 06:01 AM | #67 |
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yeah we're left of center, rhino R2 D2's
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
06-07-2002, 08:21 PM | #68 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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So, the question is, does/should a consenting adult have the right to debase themselves in any way they can?
Prostitution, under a controlled, clinical, regulated situation, eliminating all questions of disease leaves one question: Is it right to create/facilitate the opportunity to "participate"? If we choose the civil liberty route then we must allow it. On the other hand, we are often "protected" by laws from detrimental behavior (seat belt laws, access to thermonuclear weapons, etc). Does the person truely understand what it is they are about to undertake? Many young girls/boys are drawn to prostitution to escape abusive or neglectful homes, or to feed an expensive drug habit. Once they finally get to an age where they are no longer "useful", they are left with a mess. Is the answer then to legalize/decriminalize the drugs and provide more shelters for the abused? The drug issue brings up the who, how and when (at what age). Most people with drug problems start early in life, so legalizing it for adults puts more into accessability. Yet, if it is left to the street to decide, they will find it eventually. So, if personal freedom is extended among adults, then education, licensing, health monitoring, public notice (job safety - no wasted airline pilots), how is the juvenile offender to be handled? Who is at fault; the supplier? the pimp? If the large percentage of relatively responsible, yet drug/gambling/prostitution involved people can be regulated and the minority treated, would the savings in law enforcement, health care, additional taxes from legal commercial revenue, offset the incresased exposure for "at risk" persons? Tobacco and alcohol are handed out willy-nilly, resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths. People made sick by them are a huge drain on the heathcare system. If access was based on risk (disease, mental imparement, addictiveness) then these two would be much more restricted. It is only cultural history that says of substance is better than another under current laws. Complicated
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
06-07-2002, 10:25 PM | #69 |
Long lost mooter
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Prostitution causes STDs to spread like wildfire (our county has the highest rate of syphillis in the state, related among other things to the prostitution that goes on in the Hispanic community. The men go to the prostitutes then go home and give their wives the disease, and it gets passed on to the baby she gives birth to or whatever). Then guess who gets to pay for their treatment? Plus, prostitution perpetuates an attitude toward women (I mean womankind, not specific women like the wife or prostitute) -- could this be a meme?
Pornography is addictive, as are drugs. Drugs eat away at life. I don't want tax dollars going to healthcare for drug users. Besides, DUI of drugs is harder to test than alcohol -- believe me, drug users would still go out driving around even if drugs were legal, but it would be difficult to prove. I have known people who went out driving while on acid and gotten in horrible accidents, luckily no one else was hurt, but they could very well have been. Pornography also perpetuates the "women are objects" attitude. Just some more of my random thoughts. |
06-07-2002, 11:53 PM | #70 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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Random thought, but some good ones.
STDs... well, we should outlaw all promiscuity, then... problematic. T\Legal prostitution requires STD tests regularly, safe sex practices, etc. It is the illegal prostitution that spreads the STDs. Prostitution as objectification, possibly. All participants in prostitution, male and female, on both side if the deal (there are male pros), objectifiy the other (hence the term "john"). To say it objectifies women only implies that the women are not willing participants. One could say the same thing about casual sex, or even football; we see the players as just peices of meat. If a player is injured or fades in their carreer no one cares, they just look to the next draft or free agent (sorry for the sports analogy....typical male, eh?) The question is not, does a behavior, increase the chance for another behavior which is dangerous. There are laws for these dangerous behaviors (DUI, etc). If they were more strictly enforced and the punihments more severe, the dangerous behavior would be reduced. This is anecdotal, but we recently had a drunk driver kill someone and get off with only the driving infraction. If you knowingly partake in ANY substance or drive impaired (extremely sleepy, failing eye sight) the punishment should be swift and sure. Of course there should be leeway for minor violations coincidental to the impairment. There are so many liqour stores and bars in most cities; it is far too easy to get and there is no restrictions for people with obvious problems with substances. A priviledge license should be required to drink. It could be said that it would be difficult to impose, but would you give liqour to an "unpriviledged person if it meant possible jail time? It's easier to punish the exceptions to a substance use rule than to track down every single drug user. There is good reason to beleive that the obsession with the war on drugs allowed the warnings of domestic terrorism to go unheeded. It is important to take the money element of of the equation and put the drug cartels out of business. Something creative like "drug safety parks" were no weapons or cars are availble would be a places to experiment with mind altering drugs. Education about the dangers of these would be more likely to discourage someone than someone alone facing peer pressure, etc alone. I don't know how anything like this would work in reality, but the current system is inequitable, unjust, and is a failure.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
06-08-2002, 02:52 PM | #71 | |||||||
The Insufferable
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A-Elf. I shall stick specifically to arguments, and not questions of source,e tc (which I can't answer)
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But that does not make homosexuality (or promiscuity, or bigamy, or whatever) a healthy alternative. The point being is that homosexuality isn't just different-it's flawed. And not simply in that some homosexuals are messed up, but in that homosexual relationships are inherently dangerous. Quote:
a short word on Promiscuity first: The idea has gotten around that people will sleep around no matter what, and so it's pointless to try and stop them. So use a condom, use the pill, etc. Notwithstanding that no single method of birth control works perfectly, and the more common ones have about a 15% failure rate. Not to mention that few prevent against STD's. So why is abstinance considered s repugnant? Quote:
In about 55% of cases, when one identical twin is actively homosexual, the other is as well. Identical Twins share the exact same genes. So, if there is a gay gene, both would have it, and far more than 55% of twins would both be gay. Don't you agree? Quote:
The fact that an inclination occurs may be natural. This does not meant that the inclination is good. Additionally, it cannot be both a lifestyle and a condition. Either it's a genetic flaw, in which case it should be treated like any other, or it is a conscious choice, in which case the full responsibility is yours. Quote:
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Homophobia is a tunip-ghost. It doesn't exist. The fact that one believes homosexuality is wrong does not mean that one fears homosexuality. There are many other unhealthy behaviors that we dissaprove of. Promiscuity, pediophilia, drug use, overeating. None of this stuff generates fear. Get it straight: You're pro-homosexual, you think homosexuality is a natural behavior thatshould be allowd. I'm an anti-homosexual, and I think it's unhealthy and should be strongly discouraged. There is no neutral ground, for this simple reason: Anyone who has learned anything about it will make a decision.
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Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned Last edited by Wayfarer : 06-08-2002 at 02:53 PM. |
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06-08-2002, 06:06 PM | #72 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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I don't think it's a "gay gene". It's more complicated than that. I think of homosexuality as being caused by something going amiss during one (or some) of the many amazing changes occurring in the devoloping fetus's (or embryo, or whatever stage of developement) brain or sexual chemistry. Many things happen rapidly when a baby is growing inside the mother, sexuality is a very complex thing that gets screwed up often enough to make homosexuals a significant minority all throughout human history. This chemical (or whatever) malfunction could occur in one identical twin an not another. (I think!)
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 06-08-2002 at 06:08 PM. |
06-08-2002, 06:41 PM | #73 |
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So, Wayfarer, if you are anti-homosexual and if there is a gay gene tendency, why would you want to "council" them back itno the gene pool? If you encourage those with what you view as a genetic defect to seek out the non-reporductive lifestyle there will be less of them to offend you.
Yes, there is some evidence that imbalances during th prenatal development. It may be attached to the y chromosome, though. So much for the above. I'll check my sources since I am working from memory. Not afraid of pedophiles Wait until you become a father. Yes, I have a fear, which may be irrational, that letting my son go to the park alone is a risk. If "dangerous activity" is the criterion used then rock climbing should be discouraged. Maybe skiing, too. (Sonny Bono) If there was more emphasis on protecting people from other poeple instead of themselves, we would all be better off. We are off the topic of what should be legal and illegal, not moral/ethical or immoral/unethical.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
06-08-2002, 06:48 PM | #74 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Aaah gee Cirdan, Thanks alot!? Check your sources if you like, but it's not neccessary for me!!
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 06-08-2002 at 06:59 PM. |
06-08-2002, 07:16 PM | #75 | |||||||||||
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Again lesbians are the lest likely to get std's. That also assumes that all gays( males) are into sodomy. Quote:
Again lesbians are the safest. But so are extreme sports. ( dangerous). So is smoking( liung disease, cancer) alcohol ( DWI is dangerous to self and other) However I do understand what you are striving at. Quote:
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I have NEVER claimed that the gay life style was GOOD. I said I don't care if jack and john or jill and jenny get busy. Quote:
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NO i'm not PRO gayn or am I anti gay. I do not CAMPAIGN FOR gay people. I do not encourage people to do it. I do not encourage them not to. my point is to guys wanna be butties I do not care. My support is that I don't think its the goverments business The either you with me or against me is flawed reasoning. Maybe I don't give a !@#$ if you are straight gay or whatever. See the prior rely above
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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06-08-2002, 07:17 PM | #76 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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'Tis better to be sure than to be right, eh? Maybe I won't check them. It's not that important to me...
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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06-08-2002, 07:51 PM | #77 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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well, your remark "so much for the above" struck me as condescending and I was somewhat irritated. If you meant something else, I missed the point. Sorry if I was rude.
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Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 06-08-2002 at 08:03 PM. |
06-08-2002, 08:33 PM | #78 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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On the point, though, while there probably isn't a "gay" gene, there most likely is a susceptability to gestation changes gene; the kinds of changes you mentioned above (your post) . This would be analogous to a type of cancer susceptability, where some environment effect is required to trigger failure. No on/off kind of gene. The gay population relative to the rest is too consistent to be strictly nuture versus nature; not mutually exclusive, of course.
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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06-08-2002, 09:19 PM | #79 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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Yes, there must be a certain hormone or brain chemical, that if released by the mother's body during certain crucial periods, mess up the replications or cause something to happen (or not happen). Ha! Did that makes sense? But I hope you get my point. I've had two children, It's an amazing process, I'll have to go with the cliche "miracle!". Being gay is not a crime, I view it as a sort of handicap, and think it must be a burden. But I would accept it and live a righteous life, gay or not.
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06-09-2002, 12:20 AM | #80 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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Well, let's extend this since we have come this far on this aspect of the thread.
Adoption by gay individuals/couples? When my wife and I adopted, we went trough a parenting class (why doesn't everyone have to do that?) in which there was a lesbian couple. They were very nice, of course, and they were doing a social good by rescuing an otherwise lost child. Yea or nay?
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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