01-20-2005, 08:55 AM | #61 |
Elentári
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If you write a stunning fantasy with good foundations, where everything is connected and everyone loves it, you'll have to live with the fact that your idees will get stolen. Like Wayfarer said, it's all connected.
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02-22-2005, 08:10 AM | #62 |
Fëanorophobic
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An obvious Lotr copy-cat is Book 1 of The Wheel of Time for the following reasons:
-The whole sleepy, insulated village motif -A stranger coming to the village to sweep the heroes off their feet -Nazgul/ Myrddraal -For those of you conspiracy theorists out there: Merry and Pippin / Mat and Perrin |
02-22-2005, 12:11 PM | #63 |
The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles
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Yeah, when thinking about it, I've come across more things from Lotr and Tolkien in the WoT books, though I don't remember them now. But I suppose, you can't read a book like that and then write a in some ways similar book, without taking abit from Tolkien.
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03-23-2005, 03:37 PM | #64 |
Elentári
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Yip, totally agree. I have also seen some striking resemblenses in the to and can unfortunately not think of any at the moment but I remember something about a few names on the map that bothered me.
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03-23-2005, 06:34 PM | #65 | |
The Insufferable
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It may be a cynical stance to take, but I'm really of the opinion that it's humanly impossible to create something original. One fiction is inspired by another fiction, which is inspired by a third, which is inspired by yet another, and so on down the line until somewhere in the depths of time someone was inspired to tell that first fiction, based on real events (which may or may not become twisted in the retelling). Humanity has the limited ability to discover new things, and to that degree new story-concepts come along every so often, but even relatively new (to the common perception) ideas such as the Engine or the Computer are already going through their nth iteration. There really is nothing new under the sun.
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03-23-2005, 06:40 PM | #66 | ||
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Which begs the question... who wrote the first original work?
(I do agree with you guys though. )
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03-23-2005, 06:45 PM | #67 | ||
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Quote:
Luke skywalker and Aragorn? Merry and Twedledee?
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03-24-2005, 04:30 PM | #68 | |
Elentári
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04-26-2005, 06:37 AM | #69 | ||
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*bump*
That's a good point about languages Pytt. The history and languages of Middle-earth really do make it seem like its own world. That's actually why I didn't think of it as an alternate history for the longest time.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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01-06-2008, 01:27 PM | #70 | |
Sapling
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"Oz" was published in 1900
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01-07-2008, 09:39 AM | #71 |
AngAdan
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Even the 1939 movie (which made the Muchkins small people, which they were not in the liturature) predated the the publication of LoTR, and the screen play was largely written before the Hobbit was released.
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01-07-2008, 02:06 PM | #72 | |
Ring-smith
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Well if Merry is Tweedledee, then who is Pippin?
And one thing about the so called "Orc look-alikes" I don't think Tolkien ever discribes the orcs as being green. In the "Wizard of Oz" movie the minions are closer (In apearence) to Russian revolutionaries than orcs! And... They're happy when the Witch is dead, unlike the orcs who become somewhat aimless.
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Thread killer Ring smith Merry Christmas! They'd never say that (Part 2) What happened to the dragon? |
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01-07-2008, 02:11 PM | #73 |
Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation
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Er...I rather blame that one on Christopher Lee.
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03-04-2008, 09:08 AM | #74 | |||
Elven Warrior
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Quote:
As for the general thrust of this thread, I would quote Steppenwolf: Quote:
Quote:
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06-02-2010, 01:27 PM | #75 |
Hobbit
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People have probably already said this, but POTTER.
I mean, Voldemorts massive cave-lake thing? Moria. The Dark Lord? THE DARK LORD. Dementors? Black Riders. Dumbledore? Gandalf. Harry's scar "getting heavier when the enemy is near"? THE RING. Harry's sidekicks? Frodo's sidekicks. Need I say more? |
06-11-2010, 06:24 PM | #76 |
Faithful Gardener
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i did notice that in some of them. Particularly the dementors and the Nazgul - the dementors in the book were described as looking EXACTLY the way Peter Jackson had the Nazgul looking, if only de-cartoonified.
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08-11-2010, 10:52 PM | #77 |
Elven Warrior
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I don't want to call anyone a copycat as we all build our own ideas on the ideas that came before us. I prefer to think of this thread as a place to identify similar themes...
That said, I do note that there are some notable similarities between Gurthang and Stormbringer (A cursed black sword wielded by an antihero, Elric of Melniboné, in several Micheal Moorcock books). Stormbringer ends up killing everyone close to Elric. There are many more similarities which I won't go in to here. The weird part is that Moorcock was certainly not out to copy JRR as the first novel with Stormbringer in it was published in 1963. The Silmarillion was released in 1977. I don't believe Tolkien copied Moorcock either. Ultimately, I believe both authors took their inspiration (directly or indirectly) from an old Finnish tale (Kullervo).
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08-12-2010, 12:31 AM | #78 |
Elven Warrior
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(hello, everyone! I'm sorry to have missed most of this debate-I was traveling through Italy for a couple weeks and internet was scarce )
So, we've taken a specific thought and made it general, and the main question now is, "are fictional stories really copycats of each other?" (correct me if I'm reading completely outside the lines) As I've written about in numerous essays, I think fiction is so well-liked because it reflects reality, without being real. It illustrates the rights and wrongs of our world by putting them in a different light: when we step into someone else's shoes what we originally saw ends up looking much different. The differentiating element in fictional stories is what specific idea, problem, etc. the story is illustrating. On the other hand, they all seem to be copycatting each other because they are all "copycatting" the same thing. There is such a place as hell ruled by Satan, and fictional stories reflect hell in their own way...Harry Potter has the huge cave-like structure controlled by Voldemort, LotR has Moria ruled by Sauron. In this way, HP isn't copycatting LotR-and the same applies to most other examples.
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Elleth Valatari "We have come from God, and inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragment of the true light, the eternal truth that is with God. Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil." — J.R.R. Tolkien Last edited by EllethValatari : 08-14-2010 at 04:16 PM. |
08-12-2010, 06:45 AM | #79 |
The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator
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I am unfamiliar with the Kullervo tale (the Kalevala is on my to-read-list), but I am fairly convinced that Tolkien modelled Gurthang on Tyrfing, the cursed sword central in the Hervarar saga. Interestingly enough the saga also includes a shieldmaiden.
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08-12-2010, 08:36 AM | #80 |
Elven Warrior
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Hi Eärniel,
Kullervo is a character in Kalevala whose situation closely parallels Turin's (accidental incestuous relationships, a sword that agrees to take it's wielder's life, the sister throwing herself into a gorge/river...) Tryfing is certainly a possible source as well.
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