01-05-2006, 09:39 AM | #61 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
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And yes, another movie plothole are the Eagles. There is so little info on them in the movie, that there is no possible explanation why couldn't Gandalf summon an eagle and asked him to carry Frodo right to Orodruin. Last edited by Gordis : 01-05-2006 at 09:43 AM. |
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01-05-2006, 09:48 AM | #62 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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01-05-2006, 11:54 AM | #63 |
Elven Warrior
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I know it was because of the will of the ring but the will of the ring has become a bit like PJ's get out of jail free card, if anyone says "why didn't this happen" he can pull out his "Because of the will of the ring" its a bit like george lucas' the force, if they're any continuity errors in the star wars films GL will say "its the force!" any big fantasy movie has a scape goat of some kind to put all the continuty errors that people who are not fimiliar with the world come up with PS. don't get me wrong I love LOTR and Star Wars,
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So do all who see such times, but that is not for us to decide, all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us Gandalf And what happened to the rest of your party, killed, eaten, gone home? Beorn, The Hobbit Dark and difficult Times lie ahead Harry, soon we must all face a choice, a choice between what is right and what is easy! Dumbledore Neo Are you listening to Me? Or are you too busy looking at the Woman in the Red Dress? Morpheus, The Matrix Last edited by King of The Istari : 01-05-2006 at 11:56 AM. |
01-05-2006, 01:02 PM | #64 |
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i realize that, but having a movie leave a bit to the imagination is not a bad thing
why did elrond not push isildur in? one who had not read the book might conclude that elrond, while a bit ornery, was not quite so evil as to just kill an ally in war, even if he thought that person was making a terribly bad decision i guess PJ could have put elrond in a wrestling match with isildur in which he was knocked unconcious and isildur got away... but people would probably complain even more about that and on the "eagle theory"... even people who have read the book ask "why did gandalf not just hire eagles to fly the ring over mount doom"... and it is left to the reader to formulate their own reasoning, since the book doesn't specifically spell out the possibility that even gandalf himself may have been unable to cast the ring in
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01-05-2006, 02:01 PM | #65 |
Elven Warrior
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the same goes for why did they not keep the dead until after the battle at the black gate (in the book the dead aren't even at pellenor) I wonder what non readers of the book thought?
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So do all who see such times, but that is not for us to decide, all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us Gandalf And what happened to the rest of your party, killed, eaten, gone home? Beorn, The Hobbit Dark and difficult Times lie ahead Harry, soon we must all face a choice, a choice between what is right and what is easy! Dumbledore Neo Are you listening to Me? Or are you too busy looking at the Woman in the Red Dress? Morpheus, The Matrix |
01-05-2006, 02:39 PM | #66 |
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in the extended edition aragorn releases them to keep his promise, but i am not sure whether or not this scene was in the regular version... if not, then it would be a bit confusing to some
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01-05-2006, 05:40 PM | #67 | |
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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01-14-2006, 01:21 AM | #68 | |
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01-21-2006, 04:09 PM | #69 |
Hobbit
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elrond was right to do what he did. If he had killed Isildur (an evil act, no matter what Isildur did) he would have undoubtedly have himself refused to throw the ring into the fire.
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07-03-2006, 12:06 AM | #70 | |
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The thing about Elrond killing Isildor and getting rid of the ring at the same time is that Isildor is still holding onto the ring and thus Elronds actions would not be directly against the ring so he could get the will up to do it.
However it would still be very hard to explain to the men and elves outside still, however it would still be better in my opinion to have a world without elves by the hand of men (And likely women) than by the hand of Souron... Elrond probubly just made a mistake, if he knew what would result from him not killing Isildor then (or at least knocking the ring off his hand and into the lava) he would have knocked Isildor into the cracks of doom!!! The elves left middle earth anyway so it doesn't make to much difference, sorta...
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09-06-2006, 06:15 PM | #71 |
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Elrond should of put Isildor in his place....no one else was their he could of said an orc slew him or something.
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09-07-2006, 08:51 PM | #72 | |
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09-16-2006, 04:43 PM | #73 |
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P.S. I don't believe this analysis from http://www.istad.org/tolkien/index.html has already been posted so here goes:
Push Him, Elrond Many people have wondered why Jackson's version of Elrond (who famously says, "men are weak") didn't simply push Isildur into the fire while they were at the Cracks of Doom. However... 1) The movie is misleading: in the books Cirdan and Elrond don't manage to convince Isildur to go up to the Cracks of Doom. They would've had to drag Isildur against his will, and there was an army of Gondorian soldiers (not to mention the Ring) who would've objected to that! 2) Cirdan and Elrond quite possibly didn't know Sauron could come back. They were probably just worried because it was an artifact of Sauron and therefore dangerous, and they knew that whoever held the One Ring could control the Three Rings of the Elves. But they couldn't raise too much of a fuss or that little secret might come out! In the end it was a thousand years before Sauron began to "coalesce" again, and more than 2500 years before Gandalf discovered that Sauron had not been destroyed. The Enemy was very careful to hide his movements and work through minions. 3) Killing the King of Men is a heinous crime and not something to be done casually; the political consequences for an Elf killing a Man and the Heir of Elros are pretty mindboggling. 4) Isildur claimed the Ring as a "weregild" for his father and brother. That is a very serious thing: that meant it was the payment/restitution given him for their deaths and his loss, and symbolically equal to their lives. 5) In the real story, Elrond was Gil-galad's herald, and Isildur would probably not have considered him an equal (although in fact Elrond was Gil-galad's heir and important among Elves). Nor was Cirdan a king. They could advise, but they didn't have Gil-galad's clout among Men. I'm sure the reason Jackson showed the Cracks of Doom in the prologue is to give us a visual idea of the Fellowship's ultimate goal, but unfortunately it made Elrond look like a doofus. |
09-17-2006, 05:56 PM | #74 |
Lady of the Ulairi
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I have to agree with everything said above.
What a nice site you linked to, Jon S. There are some great articles there. Perhaps you are the author? |
09-17-2006, 06:52 PM | #75 |
Elven Warrior
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Nah, I'm not nearly that erudite.
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09-18-2006, 01:04 PM | #76 | ||||
Elven Warrior
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10-05-2006, 06:10 PM | #77 |
Sapling
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i agree with u all along , but there was a reason of course , they were close friends afterall , imagine the situation happening between u and ur best friend , will you do as u demanded from Elrond ??
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