04-04-2005, 06:55 PM | #61 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Okay, I understand now.
I think the people would do well to be careful whom they vote for, and the candidate would do well to let his beliefs be known. I think you and I are well agreed on this point, Last Child, and I don't know what it has to do with the religious discussion. I'm in favor of openness on both sides. For example, if I went and got the democratic candidacy for president and became president, and then sprung on everyone that I was actually Republican, that would be very wrong and deceptive of me.
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
04-05-2005, 04:34 AM | #62 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
Quote:
It's interesting that while in the UK there is no separation between Church and State, people are rather sceptical of politicians who harp on about their religious beliefs. Whereas in the US, which is a secular State, politicians wear their religion as a badge of honour and bother God on a regular basis in order to get elected. Back in the 80s, there was a lot of debate around whether the Church should stay out of politics, particularly when church leaders go a bit shirty about Thatcher systematically destroying entire communities. I think the CofE is reluctant to get involved in party political debates, mindful of its role as the State religion. Other churches, such as the Church of Scotland, have been more outspoken, particularly on issues such as poverty and equality. That debate has gone a bit quiet in recent years, though it has recently reappeared in the form of Michael Howard (Tory leader) attempting to drum up votes by appearing to be the Christian choice (anti-abortion etc). Just heard on the news this am that the proposed law against "incitement to religious hatred" is likely to be dropped because of the general election. Phew! Last edited by The Gaffer : 04-05-2005 at 04:36 AM. |
|
04-08-2005, 01:51 AM | #63 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
I've found that that often seems to be the attitude of those who say they favor "diversity" and "tolerance"! Go figure! I must say I disagree with your assessment, tho, at least as far as Christians are concerned. In my experience, I've found that non-Christians are just as capable of being brainless gits as Christians! I imagine that one reason you might think otherwise is that the intelligent Christians aren't so loud. And on a related side issue - it continues to amaze me how some people have accused me of being intolerant, yet going from what I write in my posts here over and over, I appear to be one of the most tolerant people here! (at least IMHO ) I say give everyone a vote, whether or not they agree with me, and regardless of what they base their beliefs and morals on. I encourage people to do what they think is right, regardless of whether or not I agree with them. And I don't make the (IMO) insulting and erroneous assumption that if anyone disagrees with me, they must be stupid or beneath me. If I disagree with someone on a logical basis (IOW, I think a deduction they have made is unfounded), I point it out, but I don't think they're necessarily stupid. I can see how different people have sincerely come to hold different beliefs, and that their moral choices are based on these beliefs, just like mine are. I think everyone should think for themselves, and do what they think is right. [/side issue rant] Quote:
I always enjoy your posts and find them very thoughtful, as well as lots of fun! (I love good humor! I despise humor that masquerades as humor but whose intent is to tear people down.)
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
||
04-08-2005, 07:06 AM | #64 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
Good thing you were... um... joking?
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
04-09-2005, 04:18 PM | #65 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Well, it was kind of a joke, because of the winky smilie, but it was based on something serious and on my own personal observations.
In my experience, especially during the last 2 presidential elections, I've heard plenty of junk from people on BOTH sides (liberal/conservative, religious/non-religious, etc.) But IMO the vast majority of comments that said that the other side was basically just plain stupid for holding their opinions came from the liberals and the non-religious people, and those are the groups that tend to like to characterize themselves as promoting tolerance and diversity. Now to try to head off potential problems, please note that I did NOT say that ALL liberals and/or non-religious people say that the other side is stupid. I don't even feel the MAJORITY of them say that, or that the other side DOESN'T say that. But I definitely do notice this: of all the comments saying the other side is basically stupid (and these comments come from only a FEW people on either side), IMO the majority of them come from liberals and non-religious people. IRex, could you please explain what you meant when you used that word "down"? Was Millane right?
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 04-09-2005 at 04:21 PM. |
04-09-2005, 06:48 PM | #66 | |||||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
Quote:
I don't think it's fair to characterize liberals this way just because of some loud morons. The few and the loud don't speak for the whole group. Quote:
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||
04-09-2005, 09:00 PM | #67 | |
The Dude
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: at the altar of my ego
Posts: 1,685
|
Quote:
__________________
Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free, |
|
04-10-2005, 03:18 PM | #68 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
|
Quote:
__________________
"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
|
04-10-2005, 03:35 PM | #69 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
04-10-2005, 04:02 PM | #70 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
A cult, IIRC, is a very small scale religion. (Or something along those lines.) I don't think Christianity would fall into that category.
Sometimes cults are small scale for good reason, hence the stigmatism of the word.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||
04-10-2005, 04:09 PM | #71 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Plainsboro, NJ
Posts: 9,431
|
Quote:
1. a) A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader. b) The followers of such a religion or sect. 2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual. 3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual. 4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease. 5. a). Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing. b) The object of such devotion
__________________
Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide |
|
04-10-2005, 05:21 PM | #72 |
The Intermittent One
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,671
|
as Imperator Nero Gnaeus Domitius Ahenobarbus Caesar put it
...this foreign cult, whilst yet small in number, poses a potential threat to the stability of the Imperial Cult of the holy Empire... the first use of cult represents christianity, the second denotes the Official State Relgion of Rome |
04-10-2005, 05:46 PM | #73 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
If Imperator Nero Gnaeus Domitius Ahenobarbus Caesar had a hand in feeding Christians to the lions, I don't think I'll use his definition of Christianity.
EDIT: Also, the Roman Empire had at least one other cult, older than Christianit - the cult of Mithras. (Not that I think Christianity is/was a cult, but if that's how they defined it...) Originally I was going to write that I think there are enough members in the world's religions to say that they are not false, but really, who are we to say that any belief system is false? This implies a source of knowledge about the true state of the universe, or something that ordinary humans are not aware of. I'm not going to run off and join a cult now though, but that's why I put a definition of a cult as just a small scale religion - at least we can see if something is widely practiced or not. Sure, it's arbitrary, but saying someone's beliefs are false is both arbitrary and subjective. The only things we can say for sure are human rights - something that people more or less agree on (whether they protect them or flout them).
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Nurvingiel : 04-10-2005 at 05:47 PM. |
||
04-10-2005, 06:12 PM | #74 |
The Intermittent One
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,671
|
point i was trying to make (not very well as usual) was that 'Cult' was the term for what we would call 'religion', and it was for thousands of years
there were thousands of cults, most prominent being Cybele & Atys, Mithras, Isis, Nodens, and later on - Christianity, but 'cult' is the oldest definition for the modern (& incorrect) term 'religion' |
04-11-2005, 02:00 AM | #75 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
Who can say whether these people are flouting or protecting human rights? Many would say that I am rejecting a human right by objecting to homosexual marriage. I would say differently.
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
|
04-11-2005, 06:56 AM | #76 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Good point Lief. Okay, we don't know anything for sure then.
Quote:
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
04-11-2005, 08:43 AM | #77 |
The Intermittent One
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: here and there
Posts: 4,671
|
what i tried to say was that the term religion, which has only existed as a term for a few hundred years, is far too young a term to describe something which has been a fundament within many societies for hundreds of thousands of years, cult shopuld be the correct term to describe the organised process, whilst belief is the correct term for the act of practising, or adhering to said cults
i really need to take up communication lessons, i am not good at explaining things |
04-11-2005, 11:21 AM | #78 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
But the word 'cult' has taken up a meaning over the centuries, different to the meaning of the word to followers of Mithras. The word religion (is it really that new in all languages?) can fill the void.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||
04-11-2005, 11:36 AM | #79 |
Word Santa Claus
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,922
|
On the single point of the use of the words "cult" and "religion," the Oxford English Dictionary (3rd Edition) traces "religion" back to c. 1200, and "cult" to 1617. They are both used with the same basic meaning (essentially, a set of observances of some divine power). Religion derives from old French, c. 1000, while cult derives from Latin, although it was not apparently used in English until the aforementioned 1617 reference.
__________________
Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall. Last edited by Count Comfect : 04-11-2005 at 11:40 AM. |
04-11-2005, 11:56 AM | #80 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
LOTR Discussion: Appendix A, Part 1 | Valandil | LOTR Discussion Project | 26 | 12-28-2007 06:36 AM |
Rotk - Trivia - Part 3 | Spock | Lord of the Rings Books | 277 | 12-05-2006 11:01 AM |
LotR Films in Retrospect and Changed Opinions | bropous | Lord of the Rings Movies | 41 | 07-14-2006 10:14 AM |
Were the Nazgul free from Sauron for the most part of the Third Age? | Gordis | Middle Earth | 141 | 07-09-2006 07:16 PM |
Theological Opinions | Nurvingiel | General Messages | 992 | 02-10-2006 04:15 PM |