08-29-2006, 04:17 PM | #61 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
You've got plenty, Liz.
Time will tell whether Chavez is great or not. |
08-29-2006, 05:32 PM | #62 | |
Domesticated Swing Babe
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reality
Posts: 5,340
|
Quote:
__________________
Happy Atheist Go Democrats! |
|
08-29-2006, 05:34 PM | #63 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
Quote:
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
|
09-20-2006, 12:59 AM | #64 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
An interesting interview with President Ahmadinejad:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...5777-1,00.html He's asked all the tough questions we've been wanting to ask. His response to the question about whether or not he did say Israel should be wiped off the map is just downright evasion. And I note that in this interview he urges the US to use "love" and "logic," but he never urged his people in the same way when they went through the streets calling for the annihilation of the US and Israel. I don't see any stepping back in this interview from any of the ferocious rhetoric he's been unleashing. Though he definitely is much more toned down in his language when talking to the Time than he is when talking to his own people. Now the one we really need to interview is Ayatollah Khomeini .
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 09-20-2006 at 01:00 AM. |
09-20-2006, 04:24 AM | #65 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
As it seems that Ahmedinejad has been thoroughly caricatured in preparing the American people for a possible attack on Iran, I feel it is important to point out what he actually said about "wiping Israel off the map":
http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...2&postcount=62 If you expect him to grovel around apologising for being wilfully misrepresented by your own right-wing militarists then I have to conclude that either you don't understand too much about politics or that you are one of said militarists attempting to whip up the frenzy. |
09-20-2006, 01:08 PM | #66 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
Well he is sure isn't making it any clearer...I say.
Why on earth, if you really were misquoted that badly, would you not attempt to clarify? He wants to "challenge" Bush to a debate (that is a true joke...the man is glib, while Bush is too honest)? Yeah, sure...and you know, whatever comes out of the translator must be the complete opposite of what he said...maybe he LOVES Jews and wants to kiss them, but through the translator ....alas. O poor, poor Ahmadinijihad.....*is sarcastic till he's sick*
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
09-20-2006, 09:13 PM | #67 |
The Black Númenórean
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,773
|
Ahmadinijihad? Now that is his new name?
Huh, I'll stick with Ahmaginijad.
__________________
Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. |
09-21-2006, 12:05 AM | #68 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
Quote:
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
|
09-21-2006, 12:47 AM | #69 |
The Black Númenórean
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,773
|
Um....Apple and Orange?
And hey, the pope knew what he was saying when he quoted that text, he didn't appologize for actually saying it, he just said "well, sorry you took offence at it" Whats more, the Pope WONT grovell on the ground. Neither will Ahmadinijad, and good for him I say, as much as I despise that government, I hate seeing Iran roll over and piss itself to please the west. Good for him I say! and, 'Struth, there are nuts on both sides just waiting for a little slip. Just waiting. Old Ahmed, well, he is the voice of the more radicalized middle to lower class educated class, and they are getting just plain fed up with a lot of things. When I come back, i'll post some about it. As a matter of fact, I'll even do a write up for you, if I can be bothered. Personally, I'm just sitting back and waiting to see if I need to get out my gun to shoot some nutters who are intent on shooting me first.
__________________
Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. Last edited by The last sane person : 09-21-2006 at 12:50 AM. |
09-21-2006, 03:25 AM | #70 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
Quite right.
Two major differences between the two: firstly, Ahmedinejad has to appease his supporters. Having been elected as someone who will stand up to Western aggression, it would be political suicide to grovel. Secondly, the Pope wasn't mistranslated. Having said that I don't think the Pope CAN apologise (what would that say about papal infallibility?). It would help, however, if he wasn't a prize eedjit in the first place. |
09-21-2006, 12:53 PM | #71 |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
What the pope's quote meant in context of his speech had to do with with separating violence and religion, and bringing reason and religion together...he was critical of the West too, in this regard. He most definitely has been misquoted.
Yeah AchMyDinIsJihad has to appease his base...all those ayatollah supreme commanders of Iran...completely understandable.
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide |
09-21-2006, 02:29 PM | #72 | ||||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Second, isn't that the same as saying that it would political suicide for the Pope to grovel, which you cited as your first difference between the two?
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 09-21-2006 at 03:16 PM. |
||||
09-21-2006, 02:34 PM | #73 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
|
The Pope actually said "I quote" twice when quoting the lines which have caused the ignorant to protest.
__________________
Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
09-21-2006, 02:59 PM | #74 | |||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
Quote:
CNN (or some other news agency quoted by CNN) apparently asked him the question another time. Quote:
Never has he denied those remarks. Never has he said they were a mistranslation even though the question seems to have been directly put to him at least twice. Rather, he seems more bent on justifying what he said, if anything. Quote:
Quote:
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 09-21-2006 at 03:08 PM. |
|||||
09-21-2006, 08:46 PM | #75 | |
The Black Númenórean
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,773
|
Heheh watched the pathetic excuse of an interview he had with that Cooper fellow. So many questions he could have asked and it was all centered around Israel! good grief, Ahmad has some good points!
Quote:
__________________
Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. Last edited by The last sane person : 09-21-2006 at 08:47 PM. |
|
09-21-2006, 09:07 PM | #76 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lost in the Opera House
Posts: 9,328
|
The only reason Ahmad has some good points is becuase we let him, no news anchor or interviewer knows squat about reasoning. I'm not saying I have those powers myself, but I've seen it done...
"Ahmad" has a glib tongue, while Anderson Cooper doesn't have a clue. Quote:
Ratzinger (He can also play the piano like a virtuoso)
__________________
ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide Last edited by hectorberlioz : 09-21-2006 at 09:11 PM. |
|
09-21-2006, 10:14 PM | #77 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Quote:
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 09-21-2006 at 10:17 PM. |
|
09-21-2006, 11:28 PM | #78 | ||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Posts: 10,820
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
||
09-22-2006, 04:16 AM | #79 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In me taters
Posts: 3,288
|
Quote:
It would be a political mistake, because he would have to say that Israel should not be wiped off the map, i.e. has a right to exist. As you note, he regards Israel as an illegitimate, occupying regime. This is a key populist vote-winner back home. I shall assume that you know enough about the history of the region to understand the reasoning behind those views without going into them here. In that context, his answer is, in fact, clarifying his position on the question, and, I think, makes abundantly clear why you are not going to get a direct denial of the mistranslation. Secondly, arguing about mistranslation puts him on the defensive, spending energy defending the (in his view unjust) accusation that he wants to kill all Israelis. Never heard the phrase "not dignifying the accusation with a denial"? (What I find most distasteful about this bloke is his Holocaust denial-lite. The EU president should invite him to visit Auschwitz.) When are you going to wake up and realise that just because you don't like the leader of another country you can't just wade in with your six-guns blazing and take them out? That in the real world, you have to deal with people you don't like? It seems as if US foreign policy has regressed into some sort of kindergarten / sunday school posturing with no Plan B. This has played directly into Ahmedinejad's hands, of course, because he can portray himself as standing up against Western imperialism. I hope you realise that the main reason he is in office is because you invaded Iraq, and the main reason why Iran wants nukes is because the most powerful army in the world is camped next door making noises about them being the "Axis of Evil" On a more positive note, Ahmedinejad did make some positive noises about nuclear inspections. Let's not hold our breath on that one. |
|
09-22-2006, 02:18 PM | #80 | |||||||||||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
|
Because this is a very long post, I'm going to divide it into sections.
Ahmadinejad's anti-Israel comments Quote:
I guess you're saying he's willing to infuriate the entire Western world in order to please his extremist supporters at home. And this, of course, also lends strength to the US position on his nuclear program. I tend to agree with you there. Only I think he's pleasing them by actually saying it, rather than by pretending to have said it . So to you, a translation error has "tricked" the entire Western world, and it also has deceived the Middle East. He tricked everyone! Except a handful of Farsi translators whose case was only good enough to make it onto the Guardian, the most ultra-liberal paper there is . . . Quote:
Quote:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...CE0E9957EA.htm They have Farsi speakers. They know the language. They are the major Middle East paper, and yet they apparently were "tricked" as well. Ahmadinejad also seems to have repeated his calls multiple times in the same speech. His diplomats overseas argued to Western countries, "no, he was misunderstood!" And how did Ahmadinejad respond, when he heard what his diplomats were saying? Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And this claim, "The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm," certainly does not imply it will take a long time for Israel to be destroyed. Rather, it says it is ready to be destroyed now. Quote:
Here is the way Ahmadinejad is quoted on his own website: Quote:
I think we can at least trust Ahmadinejad's own website to accurately translate his intent. All our bad options Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I don't believe that there are any good options in this war on terror. I don't think there ever have been. When we support and work with Muslim allies in the Islamic world, Islamic extremists use this against us by saying that we are propping up un-Islamic apostate governments that oppress their people, and they also say that we are being grossly hypocritical by supporting democracy in some places and refraining from pushing it forward in others. This provides Muslim terrorists with ammunition for their jihad and increases anti-Western feeling. If we refrain from supporting those governments, we permit radical groups to gain power in the Middle East, and we lose all their valuable intelligence and military support in the necessary war against terror (we can't just ignore militants' plans to attack us). If we attack those Islamic nations that are producing WMDs or are supporting terrorist attacks against us, we spread the jihad by our presence. If we don't attack, we allow valuable training grounds for terrorists to remain intact and we permit WMDs to spread among the most dangerous elements we face in modern world society. Which means that in the long run, we may suffer even more. Diplomatic and economic action had been tried and they did not work with the Taliban in Afghanistan or the Baath Party in Iraq. These views of mine apply to Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan. What options are there? There aren't any good ones. The Security Council is near useless. Governments like Iran's and the Taliban's had no interest in diplomacy and care nothing for economic pressure. Saddam Hussein appeared to be developing WMDs. The US government's evidence that he was developing WMDs was so compelling that an overwhelming majority voted for war in Congress on both the Democrat and Republican sides. In hindsight, one can certainly argue that our invasion of Iraq was a mistake. At the time though, given what information we had, it was the best decision available to us. The best decision out of a bunch of bad ones. And leaving Iraq in its current state, pulling out now would be the worst decision we could make out of a bunch of bad ones. When we refrain from attacking, we submit to the enemy. When we take them on, we make the enemy grow. Either way, we lose. Whatever we do, we lose. And diplomacy hasn't and still doesn't work. On the bright side: Thank God for the African Union's presence in Darfur!!! The Media And meanwhile that . . . if I was a swearing man, I'd curse the media right now. I'd curse globilization's creation of a flat world, for it is the flatness of the world that is playing a major role in creating enmity between the US and the Islamic World. Whenever one incident occurs in which someone in the West does something against Muslims, the media spreads it all around the world and the whole Muslim world is angered and comes to feel more and more that we are engaged in a crusade against them. Incidents like illegal torture in the battlefield and other actions by Western leaders or individuals which can be viewed as part of a battle scheme against Islam can easily be found and picked up on by international media. These things are bound to happen, because not everyone in the West is perfect. There are some evil people in the West and there are some people who make mistakes. The media splashes those inevitabilities around and then to the Muslim world, we look evil and look like we're planning their destruction. And even as the media strengthens our enemies by giving fuel to their jihad, its photos and constant updates of war demoralize our populations and weaken us from within. And even while the media does that, it also publishes critical information our government uses to hunt down terrorists and now threatens the lives of the Kurds . I'm referring to BBC News now. They released secret information they'd uncovered that Israeli military experts are training the Kurds, and this endangers the lives and stability of the Kurds. I love BBC News. I've used it for years. But if even one Kurd dies because of what they've done, I'll have to find boycott them and I will savagely attack them on this website in the media thread, in the hopes that others will boycott them. The New York Times revealing that we could use Bin Laden's satellite technology against him caused him to stop using that kind of phone, and since we've lost track of him. The media uncovered the identity of one of our CIA agents and also has been responsible for splashing around the world the secret programs our government uses to hunt down terrorists. On this last, I'm still undecided as to whether I approve of our government's programs or not. The millions of phone call records . . . I'm undecided on whether or not I approve of that. But I have become certain that even as the media is giving our enemies great power, it is giving us crippling weakness. Though it goes beyond the media, in my view. And I wouldn't say that we should eliminate freedom of the press- I think that their freedom is a necessary weakness of our free society. It damages the free world and strengthens our enemies, but it's necessary. We won't sacrifice the freedom of the press in the war against terror. But MAN, if I could just wring the media's neck . . . Iran's nuclear ambitions Quote:
They will also want to have nuclear bombs so that they can keep the threat of using them hovering over Israel so that the West can't do anything against Iran's ambitions without risking provoking a holocaust. It would essentially be a nation-hostage situation. Quote:
__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 09-22-2006 at 02:27 PM. |
|||||||||||||
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
The Iran Controversy | Lief Erikson | General Messages | 76 | 06-05-2006 06:30 PM |