09-16-2002, 11:47 PM | #61 | |
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-17-2002, 04:10 PM | #62 | ||
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09-17-2002, 07:08 PM | #63 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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One of my best friends is a redhead I think it might look pretty neat with some nice reddish strands mixed in the golden hair (tastefully done, not like some punk rocker )
What do you think of the sections after the Athrabeth proper? "The tale of Adanel" is pretty dark, isn't it?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-17-2002, 07:11 PM | #64 | |
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(p.s. - I'm working on a military air traffic control radar project right now. He must use some unusual frequencies.) Have you read through all of the notes after the Athrabeth yet? Opinions?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 09-17-2002 at 07:14 PM. |
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09-17-2002, 10:10 PM | #65 | |
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I will comment on your question concerning Adanel sometime tomarrow. It has been a long time since I have read that and the notes following the Athrabeth. Will have to do a refresher before I can discuss it. Can't read tonight cause of a splitting headache. OOPS! Elves didn't get headaches, did they? |
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09-18-2002, 12:40 AM | #66 | ||
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p.s. - Artanis, what is Engineering Cybernetics?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-18-2002, 04:37 AM | #67 | |
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09-18-2002, 01:01 PM | #68 | |||
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To be serious gprs are used for various purposes; to find if there are oil or gas in the ground, and how much, to look for buried people after an avalanche or slide, to check whether the ground is stable and safe before huge buildings are placed there, to name a few. Quote:
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09-18-2002, 05:44 PM | #69 | |
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And perhaps the most obvious thing, which is not in the final Athrabeth text or Adanel's tale, only in the Commentary: Finrod's vision that Eru, to heal Arda from the Marring, will descend into the world incarnated in human form. And further, Eru must enter into the world, but not wholly, He must also always remain outside. It is impossible not to think of Jesus Christ when reading this, him being son of God in human form, sent to the earth to save us from evil. And also Christianity says God and Jesus (and the Holy Ghost) are One, God is thus able to be both inside the world, as Jesus, and outside, as God. Your comments on this please? It is clear that Tolkien himself saw the similarities, and I don't think he was too happy with them.
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09-18-2002, 10:53 PM | #70 |
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What do you mean by unhappy? Tolkien didn't want to put explicit christian refrences into Middle Earth,, or so my understanding goes. But that didn't mean he didn't believe in christian theology.
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09-19-2002, 01:11 AM | #71 | |||
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I have been thinking about this section ever since I first read it several months ago. These 60-some pages of Athrabeth and its commentaries are so - I don't know, intense I suppose - an incredibly tragic and beautiful love story (I absolutely cannot read the last 5 paragraphs of the Athrabeth without tears coming into my eyes), a wonderful representation of the meeting of 2 people from different races that care for each other and are trying to understand each other, and then the "Tale of Adanel" section - that it's hard to write about them (and I can't even fathom trying to write about them in a non-native language, as Artanis is doing so well!). Artanis, I really like what you expressed in your post - Quote:
Also, Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 09-19-2002 at 01:55 AM. |
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09-19-2002, 01:22 AM | #72 |
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p.s. - it's fun to know what time zones you ladies are in, SGH and Artanis! I can picture you two snoozing away right now as I struggle to put some some of my thoughts into typewritten words. I usually check for your replies first thing in the morning, as you two see the sun before I do, and might have typed in a post while I am sleeping!
p.p.s. - and then in the middle of all this profound discussion, up pops the flaming hair controversy and poor SGH getting zapped in her underground digs by Artanis' husband's radar! (what a great use for that radar, though - helping to find avalanche victims). And thanks for the Engineering Cybernetics link, Artanis - it was interesting. Kind of a cross between Mechanical and Electrical engineering, with lots of computers thrown in, too. p.p.p.s. - what I meant by "dark" was the amazing way in which Tolkien's style radically changed in this story - from cozy but sad fireside chat between Finrod and Andreth to a really terrifying and formal depiction of very frightened people dealing with a very powerful being. What an incredible writer he was!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 09-19-2002 at 01:29 AM. |
09-19-2002, 01:18 PM | #73 |
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Ok ladies, I didn't get a chance to even hardly visit the board yesterday, but I am off right now to do my refresher reading, since the radar signals have stopped and the headache is gone. Be back after while with my two cents. Shouldn't take long.
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09-19-2002, 01:18 PM | #74 | ||||
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09-19-2002, 03:37 PM | #75 |
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The Tale of Adanel is a dark one, and a sad one. I get the impression that the second voice was more impressive then the first, and it seems that Men were in their beginning and at a vulnerable point because of their lack of knowledge. Morgoth appears to take advantage of this and men relenting to the second voice angers Illuvatar, and this is why they had death imposed upon them, by Illuvatar. This is only the reckoning of Men though, which would undo what Illuvatar had given them as a gift and is now really a curse. IMO, this would seem to be a cruel move by Illuvatar if that were the case, because they (Men) really could not be held accountable for their mistaken choice of the voices at that time sinse they were ignorrant, however, it does show their weakness to temptation and their greed.
Concerning the discussion of Illuvatar entering into Arda to heal it, I do not really see this as a Christian connection, although it may well be. I see it exactly as Finrod said when he used the example of the author. The authur is outside, but he is also inside, not in any physical form but his heart and mind exist inside the creation of the story itself. If you think about applying this in a Christian way, then it is flawed. Yes God was outside and Jesus came into the world, and they are one being in different and seperate forms, but that instance would not be the only time god ever entered into the world or appeared to someone, and has he not also been in communication with agents in the world without entering into it himself? This creation of Tolkien's is heavy guys. |
09-19-2002, 04:06 PM | #76 | |
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Gah, I MUST get myself Morgoth's Ring!
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09-19-2002, 04:17 PM | #77 | ||
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SGH, glad you're back! And my husband didn't turn of the signals, he just changed the frequency He's still watching you!
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I'm not saying Tolkien tried to express his Christian beliefs through his tales, I haven't learned enough of his authorship to say anything of the sort. But I do find similarities concerning the Fall of Men as seen in the Athrabeth and Adanel's tale, and Christianity. And i do find it interesting and thought provoking.
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09-19-2002, 04:23 PM | #78 |
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I have no doubt that some of Tolkien's own Christian beliefs did not spill over into his works. It was a great part of his being. He himself denies any allegory being involved, but it may actually be set there unintentionally by him.
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09-19-2002, 05:05 PM | #79 |
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This is fun, I get answers only minutes after posting! My reward for staying up so late.
I think you may be right about Tolkien putting Christian allegories into his stories unintentionally. It must be hard to keep your life and belief separated from your work of art.
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09-20-2002, 12:27 AM | #80 |
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OK, now I'VE got the headache! Really enjoyable posts, but I'm too tired to respond properly - just popped in to say "HI" and ask Artanis what time zone she is in (GMT +/- how many hrs) - trying to figure out how late you were up
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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