I'm writing an essay on relativism in LOTR

[Blackheart]

Originally posted by Wulažg
Now we're going to have to go to fate and the fact that some evil is a necessary part of Eru's plan(to make people stronger etc.)

Nope. It's a consequence of wanting something "other". If you're directing it's every movement and thought, then you haven't really got something that's "other" have you?

Poor Aule find this out also, though in a different manner.

Melkor suffered from it also, though he wanted to dominate.

It's actually quite a common theme in his cosmology- the need for something "other".

The Vala eagerly awaiting the elves, for example.

[Beleg Strongbow]

So are we defining evil, for purposes of this discussion, as actions contrary to the will of Eru?
Because to me, it seems that we should define it as such, and consider that thinking to the contrary is only original thinking, all of which benifits Eru's plan in the end.

[Blackheart]

Originally posted by Beleg Strongbow
So are we defining evil, for purposes of this discussion, as actions contrary to the will of Eru?
Because to me, it seems that we should define it as such, and consider that thinking to the contrary is only original thinking, all of which benifits Eru's plan in the end.

Hmm. Good question, I would say so tentatively. Thinking as such, would have no real impact....

Though there's an interesting part about the elves, vala, maia et all being bound to the world, and subject to it's fate, and men being able to seek beyond the world, and determine their own fate....

I wonder if it can be manipulated to confuse the discussion further?

[Wulažg]

Original thinking creates additional complexity to the plan, so is that good or evil. Ifhe la thanlof us here are profoundly evil(plus we're silly so we're evil on that count too)....

[Blackheart]

Originally posted by Wulažg
Original thinking creates additional complexity to the plan, so is that good or evil. Ifhe la thanlof us here are profoundly evil(plus we're silly so we're evil on that count too)....

Aha! I KNEW there was a way to equate sillyness with evil!

I'll send you a No Bell Taco prize later.

[Wulažg]

Ah yes, but that silly is just techer silliness. There are many other types of silliness(I have been doing an indepth study of silliness-really-) and most of those are "innocent silly". I can literally give you about five pages on it. It has indepth analysis including a multitude of references to Tolkien(some of it is in Quenya) and F. Scott Fitzgerald. My English teacher didn't appreciate it but it's useful every now and then. HAH!!

[Wulažg]

The sad part is that really did that. I should put it on the "you know you like Tolkien too much" thread. It does however prove that the first three types of silliness are quite innocent in their purest forms. The even sadder part is that the five pages was a condensed version. I could give you about 150 pages of illegible handwritten stuff if I could ever find it. Scaryy, huh?

You could almost call it evil...

[Beleg Strongbow]

could you?
Because, quite possibly, it is contrary to Eru's will to write 150 illegible pages on humor and silliness. That would make it evil. By virtue of the above few posts, though, merely thinking about writing those pages would not be evil.

[Blackheart]

Which Proves, once again, that silyness is evil!

Just watch Time Bandits if you don't beleive me.

[Wulažg]

Ah yes, but which KIND of silliness? I may very well be silly-evil. But there are those who are very, very silly but not evil. It has something to do with elvishness. People with pointed chins and "elfin" features(plus some other qualities which are less tangible) are very silly but nice, not evil. It may just be a personality resonance thing though. But then they are nice to everybody. Rather silliness in conjunction with empathy is not evil. Raw "complex" silliness, aka techer silliness, may very well be evil though. And I got in trouble for writing 150 pages on it, so it MAY have been evil

[Blackheart]

Oh Heil No!

Little tiny cute silly creatures are the most heinous of evils!

[Wulažg]

I'm not jsut talking about little tiny cute silly creatures(e.g. munchkins), I'm talking about NICE ones. You probably stepped on all the ones around you. You forgot about the empathy part. People with empathy who are nice because of that certain type of empathy(actually there are at least 3 types of empathy with similar results)(another part of the dissertation)

[Blackheart]

*checks boots*

Empafy is dat stuff what goes GISH!

Right?

[Beleg Strongbow]

Where's the guy who started this thread, anyway?

[Blackheart]

He sure is quiet for a guy with 60k posts...

[IronParrot]

Yeah, I've been a little busy lately. And as for the post count, HOBBIT bumped it by about 58000 because he thought his administrative man-skills would impress the chicks.

Wow, I thought my thread died. I had no idea it would hit this many replies.

I finished and submitted my paper about two months ago. I actually posted it in the admin forum already. I'd post it here, but I'm wondering if I should post it directly on either Tolkien Trail or one of my own websites... copyright protection and all that crudulence.

[Blackheart]

Nah, just summerize the conclusions for us. Then we can argue about it some more.

[Wulažg]

You mean this thread actually had a POINT? Wow. I thought we were just arguing about silliness and evil.

[Blackheart]

Sillyness is pointless.

Pointless is just evil.

Now you are being evil. See?

[Wulažg]

Silliness is pointless? Is amusement nothing? Stress relief? Do you want all of us to be Vulcans? At least I'll still get to have pointed ears....